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To travel or not to travel - is there an ethical dilemma?

Do people let their ethical and/or political values influence their travel choices?

11 years ago, July 29th 2012 No: 1 Msg: #159291 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

We recently decided that Burma was back on our travel list after travel sanctions were lifted this year. This got us wondering about how much impact people's personal positions on ethical conduct and political freedom etc have on their travel destinations – if at all. This is not meant to be a discussion on right or wrong politics, but more about if it impacts travel decisions.

Is this something you think about? Or is it a case of live and let live? Reply to this

11 years ago, July 29th 2012 No: 2 Msg: #159294 Delete Edit

D MJ Binkley
Dave and Merry Jo Binkley

B Posts: 10.9K

Great question.

In our case I would say yes that ethical and political values influence our choices-- at times. We were supposed to go to Myanmar in 2007 but the riots broke out. Our decision not to go was based on safety and for us we made the right decision.

The morning we were to fly in is when things got rough. Later that day the Japanese photographer was shot. The country became chaos and the internet was shut down for many days. Our families would have been very worried and we had no interest in being in the middle of that kind of political strife.

We have a friend who has a friend that lives in Burma and he was going to serve as our guide. We were sad that we didn't get to meet him in 2007 but we have kept in touch with him for the past 5 years. This year in November we will finally make that trip and we are happy to say he will serve as our guide. At this point he feels like an old friend because we have been writing for 5 years.

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11 years ago, July 29th 2012 No: 3 Msg: #159301 Delete Edit

tamandfamily
Tam & Family

B Posts: 320

I would say no that my decisions on destinations are impacted by ethical conduct, political freedom, politics in general, religion etc. In fact i'm quite bad at knowing this stuff or really having an opinion on anything like this both in australia and in other countries. So safety is my only concern and if there are likely to be riots etc then i'm not keen...definitly now that we have kids. Pre kids i was a bit less wary and was close to some interesting riots etc on a couple of occasions but now if somewhere was about to have an election and this was possible, i wouldnt travel there. Reply to this

11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 4 Msg: #159313 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

In response to: Msg #159294

I will be looking forward to the blogs from Burma later this year! 😊 Reply to this

11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 5 Msg: #159317 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

In response to: Msg #159301

Tam do you subscribe to the smart traveller website (australian government info)? it's pretty good for travel warnings, even though it can be a little too cautious sometimes. but I would rather be aware than not 😊 Reply to this

11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 6 Msg: #159319 Delete Edit

The Travel Camel
Shane Dallas

B Posts: 7,300

I know for certain that such ethical considerations to not impact on my choice of travel country - my destinations in recent years have included North Korea, Myanmar and Syria.

However, it does impact on the way I travel within those countries - and thus I do try to support local communities whenever possible by staying in smaller locally owned hotels and using local operators. It is these people that suffer most when tourists don't visit, so I'll support them when I can.

As for travel warnings, as can be seen by my choice of countries above (and include Yemen into the mix) I ignore almost all warnings except for those relating to Do Not Travel. Smart Traveller is far too cautious for my liking, though it useful for providing an overview. I find the UK equivalent better because they provide statistics (i.e. this country had 100,000 British visitors and the following needed consular assistance for the following reasons: 27 - hospitalisation, 13 - arrests, 3 - deaths) so one can see percentages a lot easier.

Having said that, I'm currently monitoring Smart Traveller for their advice on Vanuatu. Mount Yasur volcano on Tanna Island is active, thus preventing access to the crater. Since visiting Mt Yasur is the prime reason for travelling to Vanuatu, unless the warning level is reduced and the crater reopened, I won't be booking my tickets for a September visit.

As a side, this site Election Guide is very useful in planning. The rule for me is in travelling to places countries within Africa and the Middle East - if an election is forthcoming, then I'm not going! Reply to this

11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 7 Msg: #159322 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

In response to: Msg #159319

Thanks for the tips re:the UK FCO site and the election site. I have book marked them 😊

And yes we avoid chain hotels and eateries too - we try as much as possible to support the local economy and keep the money within the community. However sometimes the international operators offer better pay and employment conditions to local employees - it can be a hard balance to strike. Reply to this

11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 8 Msg: #159323 Delete Edit

The Travel Camel
Shane Dallas

B Posts: 7,300

Agreed, larger operators can pay better, but I also consider how they treat their staff - however, one is usually not aware of this until after the stay!

With Myanmar, the Lonely Planet guide list hotels and accommodation choices with no links to the government, and recommends those over alternatives with government connections. Thus, the choice is for the traveller as to what option they pursue. Out of eight different places I stayed at in Myanmar, six were listed in Lonely Planet as having no government links - but was unsure of the remaining two as they were not listed either way (one had only recently opened). Reply to this

11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 9 Msg: #159338 Delete Edit

D MJ Binkley
Dave and Merry Jo Binkley

B Posts: 10.9K

In response to: Msg #159323

We are looking forward to our up coming trip to Myanmar and are happy that the friend of a friend will serve as our guide while we are there. When she was there visiting him she loved the fact that he knew where to exchange money so it did not get into the government hands and directed them to stay in family run accommodations. (of course he would, he is a local) any way-- It is tough to figure this out in some countries.

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11 years ago, July 30th 2012 No: 10 Msg: #159342 Delete Edit

Johnny speaks
Johnny

B Posts: 64

I completely agree with Shane - the only ones really getting hurt from boycotting a country are its people. The governments and dictatorships have other ways of bringing in revenue.

[Edited: 2012 Jul 30 15:04 - Johnny speaks:170447 ]

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11 years ago, July 31st 2012 No: 11 Msg: #159366 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

In response to: Msg #159323

I haven't looked at the Cuban Lonely Planet Guide yet, but hopefully it lists homestays and non government linked accommodation too.

The other thing that fascinates me about tight government controlled tourism is the government run sightseeing tours. As much as I despise the concept I think it would be fascinating; but I'm sure the novelty would wear off soon enough. Reply to this

11 years ago, July 31st 2012 No: 12 Msg: #159368 Delete Edit

The Travel Camel
Shane Dallas

B Posts: 7,300

The only nation I know of that controls tourism to the minutest degree is North Korea. When I was there, I was accompanied by a tour guide and party official the whole time - I was not allowed to go anywhere (even outside of the hotel) or talk to anyone unless an official or guide was with me.

From what I have heard, Libya used to only allow people in the country in the company of an accredited guide, but there were more freedoms in terms of sightseeing and the like. I suspect Turkmenistan has the same rule for those wishing to travel across the country, but things are easy for those just visiting the capital city (again, only reading what I know from others). Reply to this

11 years ago, August 1st 2012 No: 13 Msg: #159432 Delete Edit

littlewing
Cindy

B Posts: 897

No, not at all. The first overseas trip I did was the year China opened up to government escorted tourists..I just wanted to see the communism in action. I dont have any problems with visiting countries from an ethical viewpoint, I know my place in the universe and realise I am not going to bring down a dictator by vetoing a country. Id rather go and do the wandering helper thing and find someone who needs a hand carrying a sack of rice or something. Reply to this

11 years ago, August 3rd 2012 No: 14 Msg: #159491 Delete Edit

jimguru
Jim R

B Posts: 24

In response to: Msg #159291 I'm posting this from inside Burma. Last time I was here was in 1978, heading overland to Europe. Other things occupied my life for quite a while, but I've been wanting to come here for the last decade, but wouldn't because of the call for a boycott. Now, like you, I felt the time was right, and that as well as re-enjoying the Shwe Dagon, I might be able to put a little more back than just tourist $$. These sites are useful for thinking about travel to/in Burma : http://www.tourismtransparency.org/
http://www.tourismconcern.org.uk/burma.html

And I'll insert a plug here , too : http://www.thebestfriend.org/

It's a significant sign that all of these sites are accessible from my laptop here in my Yangon/Rangoon hotel, as is Facebook. However, as my blog mentions in a couple of places, the military/security presence is still solidly in place, and there will be the risk for quite some time, that the step-by-step journey to open democratic tolerant society could be overturned overnight.

To answer your more general question - when there's a boycott called for by progressive forces in any country, I heed it. If there's no collective purpose, I don't feel constrained. These days my biggest ethical dilemma with travel is the issue of carbon emissions! Reply to this

11 years ago, August 3rd 2012 No: 15 Msg: #159493 Delete Edit

The Travel Camel
Shane Dallas

B Posts: 7,300

Hello Jim, normally we don't allow dropping of links on the forum, but these sites are linked to charity and non-governmental organisations, so they are fine.

I have to say, that the Tourism Concern website is seriously good. Particularly interesting is the All-inclusive holidays section. Reply to this

11 years ago, August 6th 2012 No: 16 Msg: #159585 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

In response to: Msg #159491

Thanks for those websites Jim. Just checked out your blogs and Burma sounds quite interesting. I think I may have to consider moving it higher up our travel list 😊 Reply to this

11 years ago, August 12th 2012 No: 17 Msg: #159821 Delete Edit

deleted_46288
deleted_46288

D Posts: 802

I'd have to agree with Shane on many points although I will say that perceptions that we often have of a country from the outside can change dramatically once you spend some time living in it. Political bias can often skew how we look at a particular nation especially when we are not given all of the facts.

For example, just because Vietnam is still a communist country, many people automatically assume it is an authoritarian state run with an iron fist, when nothing could be further from the truth. The Vietnamese people are among the happiest I have ever met, while the Vietnamese Government is working hard every day to improve facilities, services and the infrastructure.

Some from my own country may choose not to come here based on what they perceive to be ethical grounds, despite the fact that the UK is a country where you are constantly under watch from surveillance cameras, the thought police always stand ready to pounce and the slightest of politically incorrect words could land you with a criminal record. I rest my case.

Supporting local economies, especially when the money goes directly back into the local community, is both a moral and an ethical obligation no matter how oppressive a regime may be. Without tourism, I think many communities worldwide would disappear or simply cease to exist.

I also make it a moral and ethical obligation not to give money to beggars. Encouraging dependency on handouts will never give these people an incentive to better themselves, although I do frequently give out food, if I am in a position to do so.

Maybe we should think more about how we can affect people's lives indirectly, for example, by making sure that we make ethical purchases, refusing to buy goods that have come from unsustainable resources or that are produced using slave or child labour. For example, I would never buy Apple products being as they are one of the worst offenders where the ill treatment of staff are concerned, yet, this doesn't seem to cross the mind of the iSheep who just have to dash out and buy the latest, must have gadget on its release date....food for thought me thinks 😊

[Edited: 2012 Aug 13 05:14 - Cockle:46288 ]

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11 years ago, August 13th 2012 No: 18 Msg: #159849 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

In response to: Msg #159821

We have a similar position to yours regarding not giving money to beggars. We believe that giving money to a local grassroots organisation is a more sustainable approach and reaches many more.

One of the most disgusting things I've seen on my travels (in Cambodia a few years ago) was a western family finding great amusement in throwing money at local kids and watching them scrabble in the dirt for it. What a lovely lesson for those parents to teach their kids 😞

This blog is a good read on how we can be more responsible global citizens even before we start travelling...Caution: Political Commentary Enclosed! Reply to this

11 years ago, August 13th 2012 No: 19 Msg: #159850 Delete Edit

The Travel Camel
Shane Dallas

B Posts: 7,300

I too never give to beggars - but there was exception - a boy no more than ten was hanging around a train station platform in India at midnight. He didn't really beg as such, just looked at me.

I took him to the food stand on the platform where I was going to buy supplies for my journey and pointed to things in the display. He picked an item, which I bought for him and he eagerly devoured it within a minute. He walked off into the night without saying a word, just leaving the stall owner and I to watch him disappear into the darkness. Reply to this

11 years ago, August 13th 2012 No: 20 Msg: #159852 Delete Edit

RENanDREW
Ren & Andrew

B Posts: 1,309

I find it very hard to steel myself against begging children, and even though I agree with all the reasons why we shouldn't give money to child beggars - it's very hard when you find yourself faced with big pleading eyes. 😞

It's such a complex issue... Reply to this