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To respect or not to respect,

Originally part of The Ultimate Traveller

that is the question.

14 years ago, March 1st 2010 No: 21 Msg: #105426 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

If you don't like these kind of places don't go to see them - ignore it... simple... as I do...

Is there a point where ignoring things becomes disrespectful?

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14 years ago, March 2nd 2010 No: 22 Msg: #105455 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Moderator comment: 2 posts removed. Please keep posts on topic. Reply to this

14 years ago, March 2nd 2010 No: 23 Msg: #105506 Delete Edit

josworld
Johanna

B Posts: 151

I think that dressing appropriately is important when entering places of religious importance. It shows respect for the people who ask you to do this. Again this goes for both Women and Men. They are not forcing you to enter the temple. They simply ask if you enter please follow our dress code. Same applies to nightclubs all over the world but no-one says that is disrespectful.

- Wanderly Wagon

I have to agree with Wanderly Wagon on this one.

If you're entering someone else's territory, especially their place of worship, I truly believe that it's important to show respect. It's just the right thing to do.

One can't just force or drill in his/her own beliefs and moral values on another person or culture. What you perceive as a form of oppression might be the expected and acceptable tradition in other cultures (i.e. covering up when entering temples, or for men only temples as women can be a distraction, perhaps makes men think impure thoughts instead of thinking about God ? Perhaps same thing with Girls or Boys only schools, so they can focus on their education instead of the opposite sex ? )

Rome wasn't built in a day. It will take time for a person/culture/country/world to evolve to a fair and enlightened state.

I can't see how being blatantly being disrespectful to other cultures a step forward towards a more civilized or enlightened state.

You can't lure a fly with a swat. Do it with diplomacy ...

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14 years ago, March 2nd 2010 No: 24 Msg: #105511 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Rome wasn't built in a day. It will take time for a person/culture/country/world to evolve to a fair and enlightened state.

Yeah, that is what I try to tell myself when I see bad things happening in the world. But, I also ask myself why things cant happen a bit faster, where human rights improvements are concerned?

I think any temple, church, mosque... which charges a fee and allows hoardes of tourists to visit it just to look at it and take photos has lost it spiritual connection, so it is hardly surprising that so many tourists give it the same type of respect as they would the Grand Canyon or the Niagara falls.

I also think there is some confusion between the word Respect and the word Obedience. I think by respect, many are just saying that they obey the rules, rather than agree with them or respect them.

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14 years ago, March 2nd 2010 No: 25 Msg: #105512 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Do it with diplomacy ...

How would you(by you, I mean anyone reading this) suggest it be done diplomatically? I mean, do we have a role to play in this, or should we always either obey or avoid, when we encounter unsavory things in other counries, or in our own even?

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14 years ago, March 3rd 2010 No: 26 Msg: #105593 Delete Edit

aspiringnomad
Jason

B Posts: 580

I use another site for heavy topics and I like this site for travel only”

Although I agree that such topics shouldn't be ‘off-topic’ - I do agree that a certain clientele visit a certain website; and if this were a website which dealt specifically with political - and in this case specifically feminist issues - this debate would doubtless inflame many postcolonial/third world feminists; particularly in response to statements such as these

What if cultures do things that make them less worthy or unworthy of respect?

It is about time all cultures and religions started treating women as equal to men, instead of continuing to demand that we respect what doesnt respect us

Travellers saying that we should unquestioningly respect everything is becoming a thoughtless cliche these days

Post-colonial feminists contest the Eurocentric gaze that privileges Western notions of liberation and progress and portrays Third World women primarily as victims of ignorance and restrictive cultures and religions. Chandra Mohanty points out how Third World women tend to be depicted as victims of male control and of traditional cultures. In these characterizations little attention is paid to history and difference. Rather Western feminism comes to function as the norm against which the Third World is judged. If Third World women's issues are analysed in detail within the precise social relations in which they occur, then more complex pictures emerge. Mohanty argues that Third World women, like Western women, are produced as subjects in historically and culturally specific ways by the societies in which they live and act as agents. Moreover they have both voice and agency.

An underlying theoretical premise of postcolonial feminism is that concepts of freedom, equality, and rights stem from the Enlightenment and privilege Western and European norms, rather than representing a universal values system, and the way in which the female/colonized subject has been forced to articulate selfhood in the terms of the oppressor. Us deciding how ‘they’ should live, or ‘they’ should resist, is at BEST paternalistic

For further reference; some postolonial feminist authors include:
Gayatri Spivak, with her important "Can the Subaltern Speak?" (1988)
Trinh T. Minh-ha, with her essay "Infinite Layers/Third World?" (1989)
Chandra Talpade Mohanty, with her influential essay "Under Western Eyes" (1991)
Uma Narayan, with her book Dislocating Cultures (1997) and her essay "Contesting Cultures" (1997)

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14 years ago, March 3rd 2010 No: 27 Msg: #105650 Delete Edit

Stephanie and Andras
Stephanie

B Posts: 883

If Third World women's issues are analysed in detail within the precise social relations in which they occur, then more complex pictures emerge

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I was told that it is because women are dirty. I didnt think these people seemed sophisticed enough to discuss it further, so I didnt bother.

Holding an attitude that travelers must impose their norms and standards onto women in non-Western societies through non-violent acts of rebellion against posted rules because the female population in situ must not be sophisticated enough to understand why it is "wrong" gives women no more freedom of choice, mind or agency than does having a male authoritative figure impose similarly arbitrary orders from on high. Both acts treat women as subordinates requiring the protection and intervention of others.

It is my belief that ideological change cannot occur peacefully or with any longevity when imposed from outside, but must originate from within. Surely it won't be too hard to come up with an example of this sort of quagmire playing out as we speak.

With regards to the question about treating religious sites as tourist destinations, I find this subject more difficult to reconcile than obeying customs and etiquette abroad. The act of traveling though, almost requires that the visual world become spectacle, thus even ordinary acts of living become attractions when viewed through the gaze of tourism. Barbara Kirshenblatt-Gimlett has written a very interesting book on the subject - Destination Culture: Tourism, Museums and Heritage (1998) - in which she concludes that "Once it is a sight to be seen, the life world becomes a museum of itself."

- Stephanie Reply to this