What Julie said to inspire this thread:
There's a middle-aged American woman who sits next to me on almost every US flight. She is square-bodied, has short, dishwater colored or greying hair, and wears a disapproving scowl, as if she somehow knows I'm not a stay-at-home-get-a-real-job-and-have-kids-like-a-normal-person person. I made the mistake of talking to her once and had to hear stories about all her children and grandchildren, and then I had to justify my lifestyle. I'm trying not to be paranoid, but I think she's stalking me. Thankfully, I'm rarely in the US anymore and she's too afraid of terrorists to travel overseas. ;)
LOL Julie 😊
I get that disapproving scowl from women because I am the stay at home, have no real job......
I think one only gets approval if one is a burn the candle at both ends exhausted working mother whose husband is allergic to housework. :D
Mel
Reply to this Mel - At least I'm not the only one. Haha. That lady gets around a lot. She should start her own travel blog.
Reply to this She seems to spend most of her time in my neighbourhood. :D
Reply to this I think she has relatives that reside in my neck of the woods well. People always think I just travel, expense and collect money for doing so!
Reply to this She appears at the most inconvenient times. One time when my daughter was a toddler, I had my daugher under one arm, my shopping under the other and was struggling to get my key in the lock to open my door. Then I heard the voice behind me saying ''you need to clean your windows''. I wondered how she managed to get time to keep her own windows so clear and shiney when she had kids of this age. :D
Reply to this Oh my, I've inspired a thread!
I didn't say in my original post that she once told me while on a flight from LA to Detroit, "We (the US) should close our borders to all foreigners and people like YOU." She meant - people who choose to live overseas and marry foreigners. Oh the shame! Haha.
Reply to this Oh dear!!! She seems foreigner phobic. Living in the US must be frustrating for her then. :D
Where is you husband from Julie?
She was in my neighbourhood last week. My daugher was at school and my boyfriend was working. I was chilling out at a cafe when she came along and told me how long I have been sitting there. :D
Reply to this My husband's from France. Quel horreur!
I wonder - does she just target women or do guys have this problem too? Does she have a male equivalent - a portly, laptop-wielding, leisure suit wearing man who looks up from his Forbes magazine only to sneer?
Well, Mel and Maya, at least I'm not the only one. It's funny how life for traveling women hasn't changed much (in terms of attitude towards them) over the years. We're still seen as a threat by other women, and someone to be "saved from our loneliness" by men. But this doesn't include fellow travelers, of course, who know what's up. 😊
Reply to this I think that is the very reason for it. We are a threat to other women because we live our lives the way we want.
Womens rights are relatively new and many are not sure how to use them yet. There is a lot of security in everybody following the same pattern. Boring but a lot less chance of making a mistake.
There sure are men like that here in Bavaria where I live. People work all available hours and think everybody should. Those who arent working are not contributing enough to the government. Whether your family can live on one income is not the point here in Bavaria. You are only allowed to be an unworking mother for three years. In fact you are expected to be, but then on the three year mark you are expected to get out of the house and earn money or else have another baby. Babies here are for the purpose of paying the future pensions of people who are currently of working and child bearing age.
Reply to this I think we have it both ways in the US, at least where I live on the east coast. Whenever I tell people that I love my current situation and that it's not really a goal of mine to start a family, everyone looks at me funny and tells me I'll change my mind (keep in mind I was married for 3 years and it still didn't change my mind). They don't understand wanting to be adventurous and independent. On the other hand, as Mel was saying about Bavaria, I barely know anyone here who stays at home on a permanent basis with their kids and it does seem like people have the desire to compare how much they have on their plate, so to speak.... like it's a competition who can wear the most hats and still stay sane. I feel i'm in the middle ground, I work hard when i work, but I want my independence and the chance to travel and learn and experience as well. I try to find a balance - to be able to pay my bills and not have to hold my breath but still enjoy my life. It seems like that's an oddity these days.
Reply to this What is your job Maya? I presume travelling is part of your job??
Reply to this Oh, I see what you do now in your profile.
Do you go around checking out new destinations to add to what you sell or what?
Reply to this Yes, I try to visit places that I think will be popular with clients so that I know them kind of inside and out, and I also try to be one step ahead and find places I think would be great destinations but fly under the radar. Eventually I want to get into doing some travel writing a bit more... a friend of mine just suggested starting an e-magazine/online journal which I would love to do and am starting to look into. I love what I do but don't want to always have to be tied to my office (or my clients!)... it's just me at my business, so when I'm gone, it has to close and i feel guilty... at least for the first day or two of my trip!
Reply to this Sounds like a cool job Maya. 😊
But cant you sell your business instead of closing it?
Reply to this Maya - I've had a few travel pieces published in online literary magazines. Before you start your magazine, you should check out www.pology.com. It's a really good online travel literature magazine. And you can always submit something there for publication.
Reply to this Oh sorry when I said closing I meant just closing for the time I am traveling temporarily... like when i go on vacation or go to a travel conference, I have to close the storefront for the days I'm away b/c i'm the only one there. Julie, I will definitely check out that online magazine, thank you! I would love to submit something there (or anywhere really!).
Reply to this I'm currently battling with this as well, but in a different light... for me it's my future. I'm 23 and I'll be 27 when I finish law school. I want to travel and work, perhaps doing both at the same time. When I tell people I don't necessarily want kids, they tell me I'll change my mind or that I'm selfish and "not feminine." These comments come from both men, and women. I even had a professor who said that women who are leaders in the corporate world do not know how to "dress" and "behave as women." Ridiculous, no?
The thing is, I don't think everyone is cut out to be a parent, and that is not a bad thing necessarily. I don't want to compromise my life, or ultimately a child's life. So far, I've worked too hard in school to give up trying to be a successful lawyer. I plan on working 60, 70, 80 hour work weeks and taking months off to travel. How would I be a good mother and actually raise a child this way?
Women have it hard in the workplace already enough; it's a constant battle to get respect and equal treatment (as well as equal payment). It's still a man's world out there, despite the fact that women are just as capable of being productive and successful in business and other ventures. Add the "double work day" like Mel was talking about by trying to burn the candle at both ends and it's a very unfair situation for women.
In the end, I think either life is perfectly legitimate as long as it's your choice. There is nothing wrong with being a working woman (with or without kids), or being a stay at home mother. The problem lies in typecasting women in a way. It's sad to think that some people believe that women are confined to the traditional "gender role." That view is a narrow view of women/people in general and really contradicts notions of equality, freedom, and personal choice.
Wow, sorry for the long post!
Reply to this HaHa. No need to appologise for the long post. It is interesting.
Equality is an interesting word, especially when it concerns women and men. Doing and getting exactly the same as each other does not necessarily create equality. Unfortunately most work places are set up in the traditional way that suits men more than women. Unfortunately we have to go against our grain to be successful in such an environment.
I have high hopes that the working environment will become more balanced in the future. In my opinion it should be possible to be a mother and to earn significantly at the same time if things were a bit different. Now with the internet we should be able to work from our homes in a flexible way that allows for childcare. In my opinion even the government should be able to operate over the internet, thus creating opportunities for both women and men who have child care responsibilities. The whole of society would need to be restructured to create real equality, in my opinion.
Anyway, I think those people who are making those comments about you Liz are being very judgemental. I would even say they are being unethical if they include professors at a university. I think you should live your life the way you see fit. That is what life if for. Choices! 😊
Mel
Reply to this Liz - I've had to hear a lot of the same all of my adult life. First I was "unfeminine" because I wasn't on a hunt for a man. Then after I got married, some people (not my family, thankfully) really pressured me to have kids, saying my life didn't have meaning without them. It's really annoying, isn't it. "That Lady" even told me - "It's not normal to not want children. Don't you want someone to take care of you when you're old?" That seems like such a selfish thing to say, and yet those of us who choose to not have children are accused of being selfish. There's nothing wrong with not wanting kids and you don't owe anyone an excuse as to why this is your choice.
Reply to this I completely agree with Julie (and everyone else!). I have heard the same things as both of you for not wanting kids and it's the same thing - you'll regret it, why not, are you sure, you'll change your mind, etc. I think it's more selfish to have kids because we "should" than to choose a lifestyle without kids if we think it's best. I know for myself, when I feel I am coerced into something, I tend to regret and resent it later and that is certainly not how I'd want to feel about children! I think this goes back to another thread we had about people being "secret haters" and having closed minds (Mel i believe this one was yours as well). Although there's nothing secret about what "that lady' is saying, it's that same unwillingness to accept different lifestyles, either in another country or right next door, that causes people to say these things.
Reply to this 
