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Imposing Dress Code for Tirupati Temple! Right or Wrong?

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Dress Code has been imposed in Tirupati Temple, which is situated in the Chittoor district of Andhra Pradeh. The move was initiated following a complaint by a devotee, who said that he was perturbed by women worshippers wearing what he condired immodest clothes.
15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 21 Msg: #63448  
(That makes Hinduism in general seem so openminded, in comparison with the Tirupati Temple's prudishness.)

Like I said it is not prudishness...its a place of humility and not pride...and when you expose your body you are showing your pride and prudishness....when a saint does that he is showing is meekness...it is intention that is jurdged.... Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 22 Msg: #63449  
(And why does religion deem sex impure? What sense does that make? )

Religion does not deem sex impure...it only says that it also has a dharma that governs it.

To answer this you have to think about the purpose of religion....also tell us what you want from religion and why its so important to you.... Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 23 Msg: #63450  
(The extravagant beauty of so many temples, churches etc was payed for with the blood and misery of humans. Are they really such good places? Maybe they should be turned into war museums. Maybe they should be used as a place where we can feel our regret for the bad things humans do to other humans and ponder on ways to prevent it happening again.)

This is like saying we should turn the white house into a refugee center because all the politicians who come there are morons.totally disagree with you. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 24 Msg: #63451  

first fight for womens rights to preach in chatolic religion


Indeed, gender discrimination happens in all religions or at least the ones that I am aware of . The big question is why has it become so acceptable? Is religion a negative force in sociey?

....they say that you wear a mini skirt because you want to be popular with men.....


And is it important to be or not to be popular with men and should that matter where religion is concerned? Is being desirable to men wrong where religion is concerned?

Discrimination was accepted for many reasons...because society was not free those days...wars were commen and you needed the support of powerful and that is the only way to survive...well that is my opinion..... :-)


Was other types of discrimination in society besides gender discrimination caused by needing the support of powerful? Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 25 Msg: #63452  

Why is it important to lead always...whats wrong in following ....?


Nothing is wrong with following, unless it is done blindly. In my opinion, the negative aspects of religion are caused by blindly following. Or else maybe the negative aspects of religion are caused by greed. The greedy are not following, but they do use the powerful influencing factor of religion to control those who follow blindly.
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 26 Msg: #63453  

To answer this you have to think about the purpose of religion....also tell us what you want from religion and why its so important to you....


The true purpose of religion was to put a name and face on spirituality. It was a tool to explain spirituality in the days when many were unable to understand abstract concepts. In my opinion, the roots of religion are useful, but it has been corrupted and become a largely negative force in society. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 27 Msg: #63454  

This is like saying we should turn the white house into a refugee center because all the politicians who come there are morons.totally disagree with you.



Are they all morons? I am not so sure they all are. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 28 Msg: #63458  
(Indeed, gender discrimination happens in all religions or at least the ones that I am aware of . The big question is why has it become so acceptable? Is religion a negative force in sociey?)

when alexander came to attack india he was surprised to see many homely indian women took up arms along with their men to fight war against him.....

rani laxmi bai of jhansi tied her baby behind her back and fought the british and died in that war.
Before that she was the ruler of jhansi...with a lot of men under her.
Women have been leading us for centuries before it became a fad in the west.

so in what way did discrimination come into picture....

It comes into picture when you take away the the right of a women to make her own choice.This happened mostly because of war and they (women and men) did not wanted their women to be taken as concubines....and that is how many restrictions came into picture.

You are looking at religion from a different point of time and thats why it seems hopeless to you.When Islam talked of equality of men...the first question asked was "is a black man equal to an arab" the answer from mohammed was 'yes"
When islam talked of property being given to women it was a very revolutionary thing in backward arabia...islam of yesterday is backward for you from this century point of view...but those days it was a revolutionary force....whose gist was equality of all before God.

So you are looking at this whole thing from a mordern point of view....tell me what is mordern...today its mordern to give women her right to abortion...tomorrow it may be a retard thing especially if the population has fallen ......
In a time of war and when it was acceptable to take women as war prizes.....Islam talked of humane treatment of women...so take the gist...same is the case with hinduism....what is revolutionary thing for one time is retarded for another...so you have to decide about it.
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 29 Msg: #63462  
(And is it important to be or not to be popular with men and should that matter where religion is concerned? Is being desirable to men wrong where religion is concerned?)

That is why I ask you what is your expectation from religion that you already dont have in the wide world.

NO its not wrong to be desired...by men....but you have to be desired by your man and your man has to desire you...You cant go around sampling men...That is being too worldly and too sensual and too much in worldly mirth.

(Was other types of discrimination in society besides gender discrimination caused by needing the support of powerful?)

well you are from germany...you know the jewish problem of hitler ....things like that are in plently...in religions.

(Nothing is wrong with following, unless it is done blindly.)

That is the point I m trying to make..that we dont follow blindly...we have our reasons like the others have theirs...

(The true purpose of religion was to put a name and face on spirituality.)

Inspite of many humans with each having his own way of perspective....many religions came into form to cater to the varied nature of humans...and all ask you to do the same thing in one way or the other.

(Are they all morons? I am not so sure they all are. )

Please read your statement below

"The extravagant beauty of so many temples, churches etc was payed for with the blood and misery of humans. Are they really such good places? Maybe they should be turned into war museums."

Are they all such bad places...I am not sure they all are.

Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 30 Msg: #63463  
You make religion seem to be supportive of gender equality. So, why do coutries heavily influenced by religion not have gender equality? Why have so much religion if people are not going to respect it?
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 31 Msg: #63469  
(You make religion seem to be supportive of gender equality. So, why do coutries heavily influenced by religion not have gender equality? Why have so much religion if people are not going to respect it?)

What I am saying is that people who first supported religions were like you and me.When it was a fad to take an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth...Jesus ...the greatest western yogi said show your right cheek to your enemy if he strikes your left...

That was enough for a religion to be born.His words were revolutionary and chirstianity was born.

When people around were saying God is found at one place ...prahlada said..he is everywhere...that was a new statement ...it was revolutionary ...and a hindu branch was born....which is summerised in a poem "he is here and he is not there?..have no doubt oh soul ...God is everywhere...whereever you search for him there you will find him".

when there were thousand gods in mecca and confusion prevailed...Mohammed came and said there is only one God.When blacks were slaves....he brought equality to them ...when women were cattle he called for their property rights and gave them honour...."

Old stagnant waters were washed away with new force of fresh water...That was enough for a new creed and a new religion to be born.

Religions were not born of ignorance like you said or out of arrogance or out of stagnation ...but they were born out of new point of views..that shook men from their slumber.

Countries heavily influenced by religion have gender equality in their own way....Iranian president said in columbia university that "we in our country honour women...our children kiss the hands of elder women as a mark of respect....we see to it that they are exempt from many burdens of society that men have to bear"

That is their way of honouring women.
Even women in those societies wont agree if you say you will enter a mosque with a mini skirt.And its wrong to say that they have been brain washed.It is their culture.

if you say women get beaten in Iraq...what about germany or Usa...is there no wife beating in the west where countries are so less influenced by religion.
every 4th women in germany has been a victim of violence at home.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1334950,00.html

what about china...? It has no religion.

Domestic violence is high even there(around 35%!)(MISSING).Yet only 5 percent of women said they were unhappy with their marriages.
The question perhaps is what is equality and is western perspective of equality good for everyone and is it needed.
Will you say with all your heart that nothing is wrong with that kind of imposition of your ideas on some other culture.
They have their own issues just as west has its own issues concerned about women.

women in Islam are fighting for their rights too and many tv channels in the middle east regularly have their interviews on air.

Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 32 Msg: #63516  

Religions were not born of ignorance like you said...


Did I say that?

Countries heavily influenced by religion have gender equality in their own way....Iranian president said in columbia university that "we in our country honour women...our children kiss the hands of elder women as a mark of respect....we see to it that they are exempt from many burdens of society that men have to bear"


Without political rights what happens in a womans life is a lottery. Hand kissing is hardly an adequate substitute for political rights.

About women being beaten in Europe and the US: I am not beaten, because I choose to enforce my political right to prevent those who would do such a thing to women from doing it to me. Thank goodness for those rights!
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 33 Msg: #63528  
(Did I say that?)


yes you did ....when I said Guru Nanak the great mystic and founder of sikhism says....

you say"It is a pity that spirituality is allowed to be interpreted by those who are granted the position of priest or great one by mere fellow humans. "

Guru Nanak was not a priest but a great saint who fought against the caste system and other ills in hinduism...and also for the equality of women..










Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 34 Msg: #63529  
(Hand kissing is hardly an adequate substitute for political rights. )

yes for you may be....for them it is a great way of putting women first.

(I am not beaten, because I choose to enforce my political right to prevent those who would do such a thing to women from doing it to me)

Yes but still one in four women being beaten at home is a very high proportion.That too in a western society which are leaders in human rights etc etc etc...

I only pasted that news to prove to you that perhaps violence and discrimination against women perhaps has nothing to do with religion.

It is perhaps just stereotyping by media of the west.I have more to prove my point.

read the matter between the quotes from "domestic violence statistics wesite"

"Domestic violence is a world phenomenon. It is a fact of life in all societies and across all cultures, irrespective of economic status and training."


"In a developed country like America also Women are six times more likely to get violated by intimate partners than men. Surveys taken from time to time have revealed 305 women get violated in Barbados, 29% in Canada, 34% in Egypt, 35% in New Zealand, 21% in Switzerland and 22% in United States. Surveys done in specific areas have also revealed figures as high as 50 and 70%., while Paraguay and Philippines report figures as low as 10%. However reports generated by such surveys are highly controversial as they are directly related with the way queries are worded in survey forms, the way they are conducted and other such factors. It has been found that in America twenty percent of all crimes which happen with women are cases of intimate partner violence, while only three percent of men get affected by the same."

"In 2001 there were 85% recorded cases of violence against women and only 15% recorded cases of violence against men"

Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 35 Msg: #63530  
Now to prove my point further

VIOLENCE OF WOMEN AGAINST INNOCENT AND DECENT MEN.

now to details about domestic violence against men by rowdy women. :-)

"According to Respecting Accuracy in Domestic Abuse Reporting (RADAR) report:

Women are just as likely as men to engage in partner aggression (Kelly 2003)
Men experience over one-third of DV-related injuries (Psychological Bulletin, Vol. 126, No. 5, pages 651-680)
Men are far less likely to report DV incidents than women (Stets and Straus 1990)
The myths about domestic violence are numerous (Gelles 1995)
Many of these myths are based on DV studies that use biased survey methods (Arriaga and Oskamp 1999) "


"Men's rights activists and others supporting male victims argue that there is a range of socialization related factors that would lead to very high levels of under-reporting by male victims. They also argue that until recently, very few studies asked about female-on-male (or female-on-female) domestic violence; so while these figures are appallingly high, the prevalence of violence against men is typically not included in the figures."

"Members of the fathers' rights movement state that feminist organizations invoke the specter of domestic violence as propaganda directed against fathers and fathers' rights groups.

Male Rights protagonists point to domestic violence studies based on the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS), which suggest that men and women act violently toward their partners in about equal percentages. They argue that men comprise a "significant portion" of the victims of domestic violence, and they call for more services to be provided for male victims of domestic violence. The controversial VAWA in the USA punishes males for violence against females , but radical Men's groups accuse politicians of giving legitimacy to feminine hysteria. The misuse of Domestic Violence laws at divorce, is one more factor that binds male groups around the world.

"Some researchers have suggested that women are more likely to report domestic violence to police than men are, and this is a cause of gender bias. For example, in Ireland, 29%!o(MISSING)f female victims and 5%!o(MISSING)f male victims of domestic abuse reported the abuse to the police. In the United States, male victims are less likely than female victims to report rape, physical assault, or stalking."

NObody wants to be laughed at ...at being beaten by a woman.
Now read this below about police bias in a domestic violence situation.


"Research based on reported domestic violence or on police records show men to be the perpetrators and women the victims of most domestic violence. However, the mere intervention of police may introduce a degree of gender bias into reporting.

When faced with a domestic violence situation, police officers often find it far easier to take action against a male protagonist than a female one. Removing one party will normally defuse an altercation. Often police will choose the man, because his arrest is not normally going to involve any children; while removing the woman may entail involving other social services to care for the children for a time, something that may not be in the children's best interests, or may cause a significant delay. The fact that the majority of police officers are also male and that non-domestic offending is often committed by males may also influence an officer's decision."



"A strange thing was witnessed on august 26, in Delhi, the capital of India - last year. August 26 is celebrated as International women’s equality day all over the world. The central zone for social protest ironically came alive on this day last year in India’s capital, with hoards of men shouting slogans like “stop husband suicides, stop legal terrorism and protect the elderly from the N.C.W”.

"N.C.W stood for a grim reality - “National Criminal Wives”. The save Indian Family Foundation (SIFF) is a new organization formed by a nation wide group of some eight thousand Indian men - most of them corporate managers, marketing executives and officers of the service sector. Men too are the victims of domestic violence in India like other parts of the world - and are becoming aware of this fact. "

"The SIFF claims that Indian men are being increasingly violated by abusive wives, their families and greedy lawyers. Scheming women are violating men and their families by using laws like IPC 498 and domestic violence act. These laws deal with dowry harassment, female abuse, money exploitation, child custody and misappropriation of family property. SIIFF also claims that the high ratio of male to female suicides in recent times (64:36) is primarily due to domestic cruelty against men. This can be verified by viewing the records of national crime bureau curtsey 2005. "

"The movement for men’s rights has become a surprising byproduct of the women’s rights movement in India. The species of battered men have no means of protection, like their empowered wives - in the modern world. Every domestic squabble is manipulated to look like an act of cruelty and every marital argument is being translated into legal jargon, threatening the very foundation of the institution of marriage and society. Single parent families are on the increase and the father is becoming a redundant species in the metropolitan cities of the world. Is this actually a reaction to the regressive system of patriarchal society which always ruled in the favor of men in the recent past? "


Recently a high ranking women officer said on record that around 75 - 80 %!o(MISSING)f dowry cases where men are arrested and their families imprisioned ...are fake cases put up on men by their pissed off wives.And we men in India have no support from law...Women here cannot be jailed for putting up false cases on men.It is a kind of a protection accorded to them.

A women in India can divorce a man if he cannot concieve a child.A man cannot divorce a women if she cannot conceive

A women in india can claim property of her father in law in case her husband dies...but a man cannot claim property of his father in law if his wife dies.

Now talk about religion.....

Is not religion biased against women...we are told in our religious texts that women are gentle ..they are meek and they need to be protected ...so that is the reason why we have a society and law that leans toward women.

what say you.
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 36 Msg: #63531  
After interacting with some of the feminists in our society i came to the conclusion that real equality between men and women is something women really dont want.
Women want to be treated special and want to be accorded all kinds of protection without any liability of any sort for their misdeeds..Atleast in India its true....My belief is that religion has nothing to do with it. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 37 Msg: #63535  

why we have a society and law that leans toward women.


I didnt know that.

Then there are more women in top politcal positions in India than men and women are earning a higher percentage of the total earnings in India than men are and women own more of the property in India than men do. If that is the case, I sincerely bow to you and declare that India is doing much much better than any other country in the world where womens rights are concerned. If this is the case and religion is the cause of it, I would like to know more about this religion, because it seems to have solved the problems that we are having an uphill struggle with in Europe.

If this is however not the case and the women of India or anywhere else still believe that the law or society leans towards them, then I declare the brainwashing has been a success and they really should be worrying about more than whether other women are wearing saris or other traditional Indian clothing in the Tirupati Temple.
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 38 Msg: #63538  
since time past these below are some of the women leaders we had

List goes here...

1. Maharani Jhansi Lakshmi Bai

2. Kittur Rani Chenamma

3. Rani Durgavati

4. Rani Avantibai

5. Rani Jalkari Bai

6. Rani Ahilyabai Holker

7. Rani Rashmoni

8. Begum Hazrat Mahal

9. Bhikaji Cama

10. Aruna Asaf Ali

11. Rani Gadinliu

12. Annie Besant

13. Durga bai Deshmukh

14. Kasturba Gandhi

15. Kamala Nehru

16. Indira Gandhi

17. Meera Behn

18. Sarojini Naidu

19. Vijayalaxmi Pandit

20. Rukmini Laxmipathi

21. Rajkumari Amrit Kaur

22. Rani Jilabai

23. Rani Tarabai

24. Mai Bhago Ju

25. Minakshi Ammal

26.sonia gandhi(extra constitutional authority ..almost our prime minister)

27.sushma swaraj

28 renuka chowdary

29 prathibha patil

30 D purandeswari (most successful than her husband in politics)

Now please name a few german women leaders ....since past times till now....and if you cant ..you re welcome to sincerely bow to my country.

Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 39 Msg: #63542  
AND if you cannot name that many women leaders in Germany or rulers in germany (remember that some of the above women are foriegners ...we invited them with open hearts......with tolerence which will never be possible in germany or other countries in europe) will you still continue to say its because of religion that women were not able to lead europe...

if you say so then you have to accept my statement that law and society tend to bend more then needed to protect women because of religion leaving men with no protection or sympathy.


(If this is however not the case and the women of India or anywhere else still believe that the law or society leans towards them, then I declare the brainwashing has been a success )

Yes law protects women and that is a fact.

The basic belief of any just law is that even if 100 guilty people are left free not even one innocent should be punished.

Here in India because of the women are weak religious belief...Law is made to lean towards women.Educated and innocent men are suffering because of such laws.
I know of many men and their parents jailed by greedy women misusing that law and what i am asking is a shield to protect such men.
Is that being brainwashed. I am surprised at this ignorance.

please read these web sites for more info.

http://www.myindiareport.in/2007/11/14/biased-anti-dowry-law/

http://www.498a.org/

In india it is so...just like in europe women are not equal to men here...There is terrible exploitation and women still suffer..inspite of law...but just like in europe and other countries.

Now the question is about brain washing...whose brain washing is successful...can you be sure that you have not been brain washed....

Yes its true to some extent that we have more to worry about what women should wear to tirupathi temple...its a non issue compared to many serious issues women face.
Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 40 Msg: #63567  

After interacting with some of the feminists in our society i came to the conclusion that real equality between men and women is something women really dont want.
Women want to be treated special and want to be accorded all kinds of protection without any liability of any sort for their misdeeds..Atleast in India its true....My belief is that religion has nothing to do with it.


I think many women feel discouraged by mistakes made by themselves and other women, since their political rights increased in many countries. Mistakes made from not having these rights long enough to know how to use them. In an effort to demonstrate their equality with men, they threw out the baby with the bathwater.

The main mistake made is that these women did not take into account that people can be different, but equal. So many groups that have been discriminated against have made this mistake. Instead of honouring their own qualities and contributions to society and fighting on to have these attributes recognised by society, they try to become more like the dominant groups in socitey, hoping this will win them an equal portion of what is to be gained in society.

I think the answer is to retrieve the baby, rather than removing womens rights and thus dragging the relevant societies back 100 or whatever years. Better to have made mistakes than to not have tried at all. Reply to this

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