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Rascism

Originally part of Is it more dangerous to travel in India or the US?

Have you encountered rascism in the countires you lived and travelled in? If so, describe the incidents? Did you complain? If so, what was the result?

15 years ago, February 15th 2009 No: 1 Msg: #63148 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Yes ....I agree with you....It is a little like a black tourist or indian tourist walking in the streets of europe and being harassed by police at every step embarassingly while the locals pass by smiling widely.
or entering a shop in europe and not being greeted or attended to.
or being a student and going to the arbietsamt and being given low level labour job every time while good jobs being given to you know who....Yes it happes in countries which are world leaders in human rights....

Quote by rakesh

You really think that most of us are like this in Europe, or do you realise that you are describing the most ignorant Europeans? As for the police harassing people for being non white? Are you sure about that? Germany where I live is fighting very hard against rascism. Rascism does exist but there are so many anti rascism groups opposing it.

Quote by deleted_49612

Yes most europeans are like that.....Most german towns and cities are biased and many times they are very very rude to foriegners.Its a fact that i know of...Its difficult for african or indian or asians to get a room or a home in a decent locality.....and those who live in those localities are not ignorant europeans but educated and well established ones...I know of many such incidences ....I asked my professor about it and he said you dont know...its worse in france....I went on a trip there and found it to be true....Only thing is europeans are embarassed about it a little because of what happened during the second world war...

Yes the police in germany or france is terrible....I have not gone out of my home without being stopped atleast twice ...everyday in the city I lived...I asked the police why are you doing this.....and he said "to stop cirme"...

I wish the german government finds a decent way to tell its people that there are many many germans who are drug addicted and who indulge in crime as well...But none of them is ever stopped.
AT every gathering somehow you are made to be different or alieanated...and for this I thank America where people are more open and friendly....Americans are polite ....and very nice people....Compared to europe.....

Quote by rakesh

I think, a lot of us are embarassed about it because we think it is wrong. We want rascism to stop but still it lives on. It is not easy to be a white person and see another white person being rascist. It is very embarassing and we can feel helpless when faced with ignorance and dont know what to do. I think, that if a person does or says something rascist here, there are many who will stand up and oppose it. One time I heard a man tell a non white man to go back to his own country. Immediately 4 German men stood up and told him to shut up now. There are many who seriously oppose rascism and not just becaue of the war.

If the police do that these days in Germany, it is a scandal at the level that it will be reported in the newspapers.

Quote by deleted_49612

Even if it is reported ...people there wont care about it much.
If I remember right a few indians were hounded in the streets of germany recently after being beaten with half the town shouting behind them "foriegners out"...or auslander raus...
They do it on a daily basis and me and my friends suffered because of it.After a point of time I began to question the officers and some of them were embarassed.

Europe is still a little backward in many areas.
I had a friend called jutta who married an african and she said she is uninvited to parties because of her black kids.They simply dont want to be seen with them.

One thing is for sure...You will have to dress like european and talk and walk and be a lot like european to get some respect and be treated like everybody else in europe ....but in India they will welcome you just like you are....more if you dress up like them but if you cant...even then they will welcome you with warmth.

Quote by rakesh

I do not know if other third world babes have similar experiences, but there were places in the West where restaurant staff treated guests with skins fairer than mine much better. If it were bad service to ALL, I would probably just let things pass. But isn't racial discrimination out of fashion already? I don't get this bad treatment often, and I suspect those were the times when they mistook me for a Japanese (great tipper, they say). But it happened once in France and another time in Austria. In both instances, I did not complain and cheerfully made sure the waitresses simply worked doubly hard to my newly-acquired penchant to be whimsical. Oh yes, I was one demanding customer if you ever saw one. In other words, I got even! Lol.

Quote by liliram

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15 years ago, February 15th 2009 No: 2 Msg: #63156 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

ok

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,501352,00.html

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2744791,00.html

Locals in a small east German township stood by as a drunken mob of about 50 youths howling neo-Nazi slogans hunted down eight terrified Indian tourists.

The attack in Mügeln, near Leipzig, was the latest in a series of violent assaults on foreigners in eastern Germany that is beginning to alarm the Government in Berlin.

The inhabitants of Mügeln were celebrating their traditional Old Town street festival on Saturday night when a horde of German youths started to pick a fight with the visiting Indians.

After pushing and shoving them the youths chased them out of a beer tent and pursued them down the narrow streets of the town centre.

The young Indian men took refuge in a pizzeria and tried to barricade the doors with tables.

By the time that the police arrived - about 70 officers - the Germans had smashed their way into the pizzeria. The eight Indians were treated in hospital but have now been released.

The town authorities are still in denial about the reasons for the clash even though witnesses say that the mob was shouting slogans such as “Long live the national resistance!” and “Get out of Germany!” .

“I really don’t know if there is a far-right background to this incident,” Gotthard Deuss, the Mayor, said yesterday. “There are no known right-wing extremists here. This is a town with barely 5,000 inhabitants and everybody knows everybody.”

The regional police chief, Bernd Merbitz, went a little farther, saying: “We are investigating all possible motives, including the possibility that this was an act aimed at foreigners.”

Saturday was a red-letter day for neo-Nazis across Germany - it was when they mark the anniversary of the death in 1987 of Rudolf Hess, Hitler’s deputy as leader of the Nazi party. Mr Deuss had apparently been warned before the celebrations that far-right sympathisers could try to disrupt the festivities.

Ambitious young east Germans increasingly leave their home towns to move to cities in western Germany or elsewhere in Europe in search of jobs.

Those left behind are often frustrated, angry and getting by on social welfare payments. Nationalist groupings, notably the National Party of Germany (NPD), are capitalising on this discontent, gaining a foothold in local councils and regional parliaments and setting up their own training centres.

A survey of 14 to 25-year-olds carried out by the Forsa opinion poll institute found that one out of two youths in eastern Germany now believe that National Socialism had “its good sides”.

Because of the strong grassroots presence of the NPD in Saxony - Mügeln is close to the two major Saxon cities of Leipzig and Dresden - and in Mecklenburg-Pommerania, funding is often made available for youth centres for the far Right.

These in turn are creating a new network of sympathisers who are barely noticed by their neighbours until a flare-up such as occurred at the weekend.

In Wismar, an ancient port in eastern Germany, there are now not only neo-Nazi youth centres but also retail outlets where sympathisers can buy CDs with racist music and neo-Nazi paraphernalia.

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15 years ago, February 15th 2009 No: 3 Msg: #63157 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

Locals in a small east German township stood by as a drunken mob of about 50 youths howling neo-Nazi slogans hunted down eight terrified Indian tourists.

The attack in Mügeln, near Leipzig, was the latest in a series of violent assaults on foreigners in eastern Germany that is beginning to alarm the Government in Berlin.

The inhabitants of Mügeln were celebrating their traditional Old Town street festival on Saturday night when a horde of German youths started to pick a fight with the visiting Indians.

After pushing and shoving them the youths chased them out of a beer tent and pursued them down the narrow streets of the town centre.

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The young Indian men took refuge in a pizzeria and tried to barricade the doors with tables.

By the time that the police arrived - about 70 officers - the Germans had smashed their way into the pizzeria. The eight Indians were treated in hospital but have now been released.

The town authorities are still in denial about the reasons for the clash even though witnesses say that the mob was shouting slogans such as “Long live the national resistance!” and “Get out of Germany!”.

“I really don’t know if there is a far-right background to this incident,” Gotthard Deuss, the Mayor, said yesterday. “There are no known right-wing extremists here. This is a town with barely 5,000 inhabitants and everybody knows everybody.”

The regional police chief, Bernd Merbitz, went a little farther, saying: “We are investigating all possible motives, including the possibility that this was an act aimed at foreigners.”

Saturday was a red-letter day for neo-Nazis across Germany - it was when they mark the anniversary of the death in 1987 of Rudolf Hess, Hitler’s deputy as leader of the Nazi party. Mr Deuss had apparently been warned before the celebrations that far-right sympathisers could try to disrupt the festivities.

Ambitious young east Germans increasingly leave their home towns to move to cities in western Germany or elsewhere in Europe in search of jobs.

Those left behind are often frustrated, angry and getting by on social welfare payments. Nationalist groupings, notably the National Party of Germany (NPD), are capitalising on this discontent, gaining a foothold in local councils and regional parliaments and setting up their own training centres.

A survey of 14 to 25-year-olds carried out by the Forsa opinion poll institute found that one out of two youths in eastern Germany now believe that National Socialism had “its good sides”.

Because of the strong grassroots presence of the NPD in Saxony - Mügeln is close to the two major Saxon cities of Leipzig and Dresden - and in Mecklenburg-Pommerania, funding is often made available for youth centres for the far Right.

These in turn are creating a new network of sympathisers who are barely noticed by their neighbours until a flare-up such as occurred at the weekend.

In Wismar, an ancient port in eastern Germany, there are now not only neo-Nazi youth centres but also retail outlets where sympathisers can buy CDs with racist music and neo-Nazi paraphernalia.

Reply to this

15 years ago, February 15th 2009 No: 4 Msg: #63158 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

oops i tried to make a few lines in bold but ended up with the whole news in bold letter... Reply to this

15 years ago, February 15th 2009 No: 5 Msg: #63159 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Oh, I understand what you mean now Rakesh. The Neo Nazis are a big problem is Germany. I thought you meant that rascism is a typical German thing. Neo Nazis are by far not typical Germans.

Here is a thread I made a while ago about them. Whether they should be allowed to hold public demonstrations or not about their politics is always a contraversial issue here.

Bad things are hard to get rid of. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 17th 2009 No: 6 Msg: #63275 Delete Edit

Scary Israel
Israel

B Posts: 28

there are skinheads/neo-nazis and similar racist groups everywhere in the world. They are not typical of ANY of the countries they are in. We have skinheads in NZ who have commited race-motivated crimes against "foreign" people; it doesn't mean that NZers are all racists -- NZ is still a much safer country than most. There were the neo-nazis who attacked in a most despicable way the pregnant Brazilian woman in a train station in Switzerland last week -- but Swiss people are not all racist thugs. There are muslim extremists in Indonesia who attack white tourists - but the vast majority of Indonesians would never dream of doing this.

Regarding the story above about the German townsfolk not doing anything when the Indian tourists were being chased by a mob of FIFTY drunken neo-nazis -- well, can you blame them? Thats not acceptance of racism by the other people, its called being scared Reply to this

15 years ago, February 17th 2009 No: 7 Msg: #63280 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Thats not acceptance of racism by the other people, its called being scared

I think they would have called the police. People here are not that inactive, when they see something bad. There are a group of extremists that frequently clash with the Neo Nazis and they are just as bad with all the violence and vandalism they cause in the name of stopping the Neo Nazis.

I used to have a boyfriend from Nigeria. People in Germany treated us like any other couple, but he did point out subtle rascism in society that I did not notice before. For example, we were watching an action movie. He told me that the black guy will get killed first. I thought, he cant be right. Then it happened exactly like he said. He said, it always goes like that in the movies. I think the media should be held responsible for feeding our subconsious with this. How are we supposed to get rid of discrimination in society if they keep reinforcing it, without us even noticing? Reply to this

15 years ago, February 17th 2009 No: 8 Msg: #63362 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

hi Scary Israel,

When i posted this I WAS NOT talking about the neo nazi groups....I know that extreme people exist in all societies and all nations....I was talking about impolite behaviour of normal local people against foriegners in europe...
It is accepted behaviour in their part of society.I know it because i was in europe long enough to notice it.

Most europeans know it but they deny it exists.
my respect for america grew when I came here from europe.The contrast is striking.

The racism in europe is an everyday affair...It starts with normal educated people refusing to accept you as part of their society...and trying to keep you off at every drop of a hat....

The news dosent say its an attack by Neo Nazi Youth....It was an attack by german townfolks against foriegners....not one from the crowd called the police.....it was the indians who called police from inside the pizzeria...

The german towns folks were standing outside shouting "foriegners out...".

"The Indians left the tent where the dance was being held but were then attacked by a number of Germans who chased them across the town's market place until they took shelter in a pizzeria run by an Indian. The owner let them in, but the mob tried to kick in the doors of the restaurants as a large crowd looked on. The restaurant owner's car was also seriously damaged.

Police arrived in force after one of the men called them from inside the restaurant, and the mayor of Mügeln, Gotthard Deuse, has been criticised for claiming that the attack wasn't racially motivated. "

IF you say this is a neo nazi attack...it will be denying facts....

(People in Germany treated us like any other couple, but he did point out subtle rascism in society that I did not notice before.)

I find it difficult to believe that people in germany treated you as a normal couple.

I do know that racism exists in all societies including india...but then the west is worst in its treatment of its immigrants.IT is worst in the treatment of blacks...They have no voice of their own except media and a few moderate germans.

who cares for the moderates anyway.

I know that if a black man sits in a train not many germans would prefer to sit beside him..same is the case with turkish.
Also most busses and trams the turkish or blacks or foriegners will occupy the last seats...its not explicit but you have to observe them...you will understand...somehow they have a way of brow beating you to the margins of their society.
You are not equal in their society.
You cannot travel europe without being looked down upon either by the tram conductor or a shop keeper or many of thier locals.
A women I worked with told me we dont want the turkish to do anything else apart from the work they already do now a days.Most turkish who built mordern germany live freely but that is as long as they accept this forced role on them by the german society.

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15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 9 Msg: #63384 Delete Edit

system
TravelBlog System User

H Posts: 1,526

2 posts moved to this new topic: Bold text Reply to this

15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 10 Msg: #63389 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

I was talking about impolite behaviour of normal local people against foriegners in europe...
It is accepted behaviour in their part of society.I know it because i was in europe long enough to notice it.

Here in the South of Germany where I live, it is not just people of other races that are not accepted. It is all foreigners and east Germans. The people here are generally very conservative and see anybody who is not like they are as wrong.

The news dosent say its an attack by Neo Nazi Youth....

Well, it does. If they were howling Neo Nazi slogans, then they are Neo Nazis. The Neo Nazis are a group, who also have a political party. Just about all they do is illegal here in Germany, including broadcasting their party politics or displaying any of their party symbols. That unfortunately does not always stop them doing things and the police are always watching them.

I find it difficult to believe that people in germany treated you as a normal couple.

If they didnt, I would say so. I am against rascism and I think putting all information out in the open is the first step to combatting it. If people are embarassed by rascism, then they can take steps to prevent what makes them embarassed, but this is only possible in some cases if they are educated about it first.

IT is worst in the treatment of blacks...They have no voice of their own except media and a few moderate germans.

Do you mean IT as in Information Technology. If so, nobody who works in IT has any real rights. Those companies tend to pay more, but their employees are not protected by unions like many other industries.

They have no voice of their own except media and a few moderate germans.

who cares for the moderates anyway.

A lot of people listen to the moderates. European Union politics is based to a large extent on moderation. No European country that joined the European Union has ever gone to war with another European country, since it joined the European Union. Gaining and maintaining and improving human rights in Europe may be an uphill battle, but as far as I can see Europe is facing this challange face on. Compare the Amnesty reports for European countries with those of other countries in the world.

Most turkish who built mordern germany live freely but that is as long as they accept this forced role on them by the german society.

Turkish citizens get a lot of concessions in Germany, because Turkey is a candidate for joining the European Union. Many of them are here for economic reasons. They are here to get jobs that pay more than they can get in Turkey.

I dont understand your point about them having built modern Germany. Would you explain it in more detail.

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15 years ago, February 18th 2009 No: 11 Msg: #63472 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

(Do you mean IT as in Information Technology)

No IT here is the behaviour of germans...it as we say it is a baby... :-)

(Compare the Amnesty reports for European countries with those of other countries in the world.)

Amnesty report generally talk about the authorities like police in dealing with the powerless population.I am talking about the subtle hate that flows in germany over the garb of mordernity.

(Turkish citizens get a lot of concessions in Germany, because Turkey is a candidate for joining the European Union. Many of them are here for economic reasons. They are here to get jobs that pay more than they can get in Turkey.

I dont understand your point about them having built modern Germany. Would you explain it in more detail. )

Everyone knows that they are treated as third class citizens in a country they helped build after the war...That is what i mean by them having built modern germany...first came the italians who were taunted by locals as "macaroni"...then came the turkish...who gave their labour to built germany.

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15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 12 Msg: #63490 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Amnesty report generally talk about the authorities like police in dealing with the powerless population.

What they actually do is gather information about how much the UN code of human rights is adhered to, in the various countries around the world.

Everyone knows that they are treated as third class citizens in a country they helped build after the war...

Are they actually citizens of Germany? I think they just get concessions, so they can come here to work and live.

In what ways did they rebuild Germany after the war? I presume you mean the second world war?
From what I know, the US provided much of the resources that rebuilt Europe after the second world war and not Turkey.
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15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 13 Msg: #63511 Delete Edit

perica
carolina popow

N Posts: 10

To say that the whole of Europe is racist is to say that the whole of Europe is stupid,ignorant and brutal which is ridiculous.I think Mel´s atitude is right(if one sees racist behaviour one complains about it)and I think there are a lot more people around like that than stupid racist oafs!I always sit at the back of a bus when I am travelling because I get a better look at what is going on-it takes all sorts!I really think racism is pure ignorance,and that is something we all should do whatever we can to fight off . Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 14 Msg: #63517 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Also most busses and trams the turkish or blacks or foriegners will occupy the last seats..

I dont understand why you made this comment. I am a foreigner here in Germany, and I never feel any pressure at all to sit at the back of the bus or any other part of it. I get on the bus and sit on whichever unoccupied seat I want. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 15 Msg: #63534 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

Please see the links below

guys throw bananas when africans play in spain and a coach who seems loony....and he is coaching a national football team. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 16 Msg: #63537 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

(Are they actually citizens of Germany? I think they just get concessions, so they can come here to work and live.

In what ways did they rebuild Germany after the war? I presume you mean the second world war?)

They are...of course they are....

They did not come to work and live on their own german government invited them after the second world war as there was severe labour shortage.
USA gave the money and investments but who build war torn germany?.They did....and they are citizens there....because their toil and hard work is part of what every german is enjoying today.

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15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 17 Msg: #63572 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

Please see the links below

Yes, video coverage like this proves that rascist people do exist in Europe. But I dont think anybody would deny that, even without this evidence.

They did not come to work and live on their own german government invited them after the second world war as there was severe labour shortage.

Countries do that, when there is a shortage of people to do certain jobs. I think this is usually in return for financial payments and permits to live in the country, rather than to be recognised as a builder of the country. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 18 Msg: #63575 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

(rather than to be recognised as a builder of the country.)

The building of germany did not happen in a day....it took years and years...meanwhile many turkish children were born in germany and for them it is their country....They feel terrible in a culture that dosent accept them as equal..financial payments and permits being given is not enough....it is like the owner of a major car manufacturing company in flint michigan who says that I dont have to have social responsibility...I used the people just as any other resource...."

you have to have a social responsibility to accept turkish for their contribution to your country and their importance in your daily lives....one cannot say we paid them.
They are not objects...They are people.The first generation will be quite...the second will be quite...the third will be quite...the fourth generation will rebel and fight.

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15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 19 Msg: #63578 Delete Edit

deleted_49612
deleted_49612

D Posts: 24.6K

your country

My country? I am also a foreigner here in Germany.

I suppose one could say that everybody who lives here contributes to the fabric of society. Saying that we as foreigners helped build Germany may be to some extent true, but what type of responsibility exactly do you think the government of Germany and the Germans should take for us more than they are already doing? An announcement to demonstrate that they have in fact noticed that we work and pay tax? Or will nothing ever be enough unless all the narrow minded xanophobics are gone? Even then, will it be enough, or will it have to be the case that the narrow minded rascists and xanophobics never existed in the first place? That would create an unsurmountable, irresolvable political stalemate that will benefit nobody. Reply to this

15 years ago, February 19th 2009 No: 20 Msg: #63584 Delete Edit

rakesh
rakesh reddy

D Posts: 98

I think like you say....women hand kissing is not enough....similarly maybe reserve seats for parliaments for the turkish so that they can politically empower themselves...

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