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Has Travel Really Broadened Your Mind?

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Or are you a secret hater?
16 years ago, April 24th 2008 No: 1 Msg: #33482  
What do you think about the following?

Some experts argue that even the most politically correct among us may harbor unconscious prejudices against ethnic groups, women, gays and others. From The Secret Haters Reply to this

16 years ago, April 26th 2008 No: 2 Msg: #33647  
B Posts: 228
This is a great topic! While I never like to use the term "everyone" when making a statement, I feel that a very large number of people, even those who are very open-minded/politically correct do have at lease some small unconscious prejudice that they harbor. I think it's important to include the word "unconscious" because often people don't realize that they even have this until someone else points it out or something makes them realize it (e.g. being in a certain situation that makes them feel uneasy, etc).

I think, for me, it is partially true that travel has broadened my mind. It is also partially that I began traveling because I am already an incredibly open-minded person and I realize how much else there is "out there" to see and experience and because I feel more - I often feel more at home when traveling than when actually at home. I must admit, though, that this question made me acknowledge that I have somewhat of a "reverse" bias. I actually have a bit of a bias against people who don't like to travel and experience other cultures! I know this sounds silly. I'm not referring to people who don't have the means or opportunity, but when I talk to people who don't understand why I'd want to travel and think that right where they live is the only place they should ever be, I tend to "categorize" them as closed minded and it definitely affects my thoughts about them in general. So I guess, in that sense, I can say that I'm one of those very open-minded people who still has some sort of prejudice, even if it seems a bit backwards! Reply to this

16 years ago, April 26th 2008 No: 3 Msg: #33660  
I think one of the biggest challanges for people is to recognise that people can be different by equal.
Attributes of the dominant groups in society seem to be given the most status. Other groups tend to go against the grain in the struggle to gain those attributes instead of recognising what they themselves can contribute and promoting it and eventually having it recognised. Reply to this

16 years ago, April 27th 2008 No: 4 Msg: #33719  
Hi,

Currently, I live in a small community in the Ozark mountains. I have traveled extensively in the US for over fifty years. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, it has given me an outlook on life much different than that of the local people who haven't traveled. But, I feel there are caveats to the old "travel broadens the mind" saying.

First, one must realize there are more ways to "travel" than by changing one's geographic location. There are books to be read, movies and plays to be seen, and music to be listened to. There is also being truly open to people around you so that you don't miss their individuality. Everyone has something of value to impart if given the opportunity. And, finally there is formal education. All of these things could be categorized as "trips" or "traveling." They are all broadening to one's outlook on life and acceptance of other people and other cultures.

That being said, I believe that most people do suffer from race and/or cultural bias. It is something that is, unfortunately, programmed into us when we are young. We pick it up from our parents, friends, peers, and mass media. The real tragedy is when a person is unaware that these attitudes, likes and dislikes ARE imposed from without and not something decided logically. Reply to this

16 years ago, April 30th 2008 No: 5 Msg: #33912  
I suppose traveling has made me.. more understanding & tolerant of people... (imagine a really bad seatmate on the plane - does wonders for your patience). It's made me aware as well of other people's situation

I believe everyone has a secret prejudice(blame social programming); what does make a difference is how we act on it and if we do act on it - and like IUMy23 said, we often don't realize it until someone tells us so. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 6 Msg: #34026  
Well according to one anonymous comment on one of my blogs I am a self-righteous bastard, and in keeping with his comment, I deleted it before anyone else would find out! So there you have it, I must be one of those secret haters :-)

Apart from that I would say, live and let live... My parents live on the country side and the farmers around us have never travelled anywhere, and don't feel the need to and I must say if I were them I probably wouldn't either... What a wonderfull life they seem to have, content with what they have... But I unfortunatly am not them and am a compulsive traveller, whether it has made me a broader minded person I don't know... I feel at home when travelling and ill at ease at home or in my country, so maybe I am not travelling to broaden my mind but to ease my mind... :-)

I tend to agree with gar1984, travelling helps, but it's about the person not the travelling... You have to be open to different views in the first place to be able to broaden your mind, be that with books, a good argument with somebody who has a totally different view on the world or with travelling.

And how open-minded are we anyway? We find it perfectly acceptable to critisize other countries values, like sharia law, how women are treated in certain parts of the world, secular versus religious, democracy, dictartorships.... But in the end these are all western values aren't they? There is an uproar in the west when a mufti says he doesn't find the freedom of speech to encompass insulting a prophet... Don't get me wrong, I am one of those people who does this, I am after all a product of a western upbringing... And of course a self-righteous bastard :-)

Perhaps the best we can hope for is that we realize our flaws and strive to broaden our mind and better ourselves... Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 7 Msg: #34031  
Right on Dudeness. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 8 Msg: #34040  
Ralf, I got a nasty anonymous comment on one of my blogs too and deleted it.
That person is the real secret hater.

I think human rights are international values, not Western values. But I do think that in the West we should see how our human rights standards have evolved so we dont presume that they were always there.

Mel Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 9 Msg: #34052  
I also think human rights are international values, but it still remains a fact that they were drafted by the western nations when the U.N. was set up.

It is good to always remember that Europe justified it's colonization for a long time under the pretence of bringing civilization and superior western values to those countries.

As I said, I think those values are universal too, but perhaps they need to be expanded somewhat to also incorporate values that we might not find that important but might be very important to another culture. Our consumerism is after all destroying a lot of things not only in the west. An African might say that trade barriers thrown up by the west on their products or the dumping of excess food and destroying the livelyhood of homegrown farmers is a human rights issue, after all it is people that die in the end because of it. Cultures are being destroyed because we are forcing our values on them and often under the pretence of those same universal rights.

I guess there are no easy answers :-)

Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 10 Msg: #34055  

It is good to always remember that Europe justified it's colonization for a long time under the pretence of bringing civilization and superior western values to those countries.



That is exactly what I mean by saying we should remember that our standard of human rights evolved and not presume they were always there.
All countries are members of the UN. It is not a Western organisation even though the richer coutries which are often the Western ones pay for most of it because they can. Have you read any of the comments made by the Secretary General of the UN? There is no way that he is biased towards any country or culture. The UN stands for Peace and Human Rights and is not for or against anybody or anything else.

The UN are also currently critisising those trade barriers in favour of a new system to solve the world food crisis and to prevent it from happening again. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 11 Msg: #34056  
Talk about broadening our minds :-)

The U.N. is now an international organisation, but when it first was set up, most of the world was still colonized and as such it was much more a western organisation, with a few exceptions. And the exceptions had already taken over our values by that time. Not for nothing are 4 out of the 5 permenant members of the security council European and North American nations...

Anyway, I think we all agree on this particular subject... Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 12 Msg: #34057  
I for one think the world, and all the people in it, would be doing great if we just applied UN general resolution 217 A (III) that was enacted in 1948. That is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I think most people in the world believe in these "universal rights" and do try to live them everyday. Problem is, governments think they are exempt.
Reply to this

16 years ago, May 1st 2008 No: 13 Msg: #34059  
Yep I think we all agree on that.
Reply to this

16 years ago, May 2nd 2008 No: 14 Msg: #34154  
I guess I'm not really a "secret" hater, but I think the topic is pretty complex.

Generally I'm pretty open minded and find myself getting frustrated (especially here in the States) about how close minded people can be, especially people who don't get out of their comfort zone--whether it's through travel or something else. Yet while I think we are taught a lot of the biases we must work to overcome I also believe we are born with some of those biases as well. It's part of human nature. That doesn't mean we should accept it, but we're not blank slates. I think realizing and working toward overcoming our natural prejudices as well as those that have been ingrained in us is a constant goal.

Having said all that, there are times I think a judgment call is acceptable, even called for. Times when some things are not equal but better or worse. I would say that some cultural artifacts--female genital mutilation, valuing a boy's education over a girl's, etc.--are better off going the way of the dodo than valued as some sort of equal but different cultural practice.

I don't mean to imply that anyone here thinks these are good things btw, but I and most of my friends are pretty liberal and I think the mistake we need to guard against is protecting something because it is different when it might also be abhorrent. Here in the US the right wing (conservative, generally religious) often looks at any sort of difference from the mainstream as bad, i.e., homosexuality, irreligiosity, immigrants, etc. which is extremely frustrating. I don't think though that being on the other end of the spectrum is necessarily a good thing either.

Broaden our minds, get out of our comfort zone, challenge our beliefs and prejudices, but also understand that sometimes we need to make a judgment about objectionable cultural artifacts, whether those practices are our own or not.

Of course, this doesn't mean we need to express outrage and disgust when we are guests in other places, there is a definite need for diplomacy and understanding that change (in ourselves and others) is often an incremental process. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 3rd 2008 No: 15 Msg: #34161  
What an interesting topic!
Philosophers sometimes talk about cultural relativism - that you should only judge a culture within the values of that culture. Of course, the problem with this point of view is that it proposes that everybody should follow cultural relativism - that is, everybody should follow cultural relativism, regardless of the culture they come from 😉

I think that you can say something in a culture is right or wrong without being prejudiced, but you should be tentative about pointing out which parts. The main reason for this is that sometimes a person can think a cultural practice is wrong, simply because you don't understand it. I've seen some foreigners working in China do this - they think their concerns over work issues aren't heard by management. They think that they should only raise an issue once, and then it should be dealt with immediately, possibly after a debate about the issue.

The Chinese management don't work like this (those I work with anyway). The best way to get action on an issue is to raise it respectfully, ask for a suggestion as to how management and the teacher could approach the problem, and then let it percolate in their heads. They appreciate a non-confrontational style and being given time to think about issues, which is quite different to the west I think. This might have something to do with talking to the Chinese managers in their second language as well - though they are just as intelligent as us Western workers, (and sometimes more capable) they're at a serious disadvantage in a heated debate.

When foreign workers don't appreciate the different decision making style (and speed), they think that they are getting shafted and make regrettable statements about the people and the culture.

I should point out also that I think some of the recent controversy and condemnation of China is ill-advised and prejudiced. Imagine you were a government that had opened up it's borders 30 years ago, had made consistent gains in your own peoples' standard of living and human rights, and then the media if a number of countries condemn you and embarrass you on the world stage? Which (metaphorical) finger would you use to express yourself to the people who choose to focus only on the things you've done poorly?

For those who doubt human rights gains have been made, you have to consider the increasing liberalization of government policy since the cultural revolution.

Which country is perfect anyway? If we look at the self-styled leaders of the free world, we might remember Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, Iraq, Vietnam and the rendition program.

So to get back to the topic, I think travel has broadened my mind - I would not have written this post a year ago - but not all of the judgments (good and bad) that I make about a culture should be considered prejudices. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 3rd 2008 No: 16 Msg: #34163  
Toby and Em,

much more eloquently put! I suspect we could debate the finer points but agree on the principles and theory. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 3rd 2008 No: 17 Msg: #34176  
Would there have been human rights gains in China without the attention of Amnesty, the UN, the world media.....?
Reply to this

16 years ago, May 4th 2008 No: 18 Msg: #34254  
Hmmm... I'm unsure about the role of external groups like those you list. They may have had an effect in some recent cases, but it wouldn't be the same as in a western country, because the information here is filtered. Not many people would know what those groups say. I get CCTV (state run media) here, as well as the Australia network and the BBC from satellite TV (which technically I shouldn't have - I'm not sure why I do have it). The filtering of content on CCTV is substantial (though of course I do find some western media coverage biased as well).

The particular human rights gains I was thinking of was the reversal of many of the policies instituted in the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. Those two periods resulted in deaths numbering in the tens of millions (there are different estimates, but between 10 and 40 million). Landlords, scholars and other upper class people were persecuted terribly, and forcibly sent from cities into the country to work in farms. Many religious sites, ancient historical relics and books were destroyed. Religious persecution was widespread. Check out wikipedia for the summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
(I thought wikipedia was banned in China, but I have access...)

The person most responsible for China's economic growth, opening up and liberalisation after the cultural revolution was Deng Xiaoping. He was a member of the communist party from before the long march, but fell out of favour with Mao Zedong and was also persecuted during the cultural revolution. For example, his son was pushed out of a window on the fourth storey of a building, becoming a paraplegic. For the major reforms, Deng Xiaoping's and the Chinese peoples' motivation was probably their own experiences, rather than international opinion.

So the short version of my long response is that historically, the major economic and human rights reforms since the 1980's are more likely to be a product of internal processes rather than the attention of external groups. I can't tell whether that has changed recently or will change into the future. While the state controls the media, I tend to think external groups matter little, but there are people that know more about it than I do.

-- For those that are interested, I am told that the children are taught very little about Mao here. It's not a subject I discuss with them though. Zhou Enlai is popular, Deng Xiaoping is less so. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 6th 2008 No: 19 Msg: #34471  
Hi all,

For my two cents (or colones, or cordobas, or other currency of your choice)...this trip I've been on is the first extensive trip outside the States, though I've been to lots of the States. That said, the short answer to the question is yes...it has helped to remind me of what is truly rich and poor, among other issues. I have also at least tried to listen to other peoples opinions, without necessarily agreeing with them or saying I must accept them as equally valid in order to be "open-minded". I take some exception to the concept of "cultural relativism", or that it is absolutely true there is no absolute truths, obviously a self-contradicting statement. Even if we subscribe to the U.N. being what it may have theoretically was supposed to be, as opposed to having its own political agendas, the U.N. states it subscribes to the concept of absolute rights in the Universal Declaration, thus going against the concept of cultural relativism and we should accept any and all statements as valid and true.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that while I can look at other ways of thinking and other ways of life, I won't say that just because someone lives a certain way that is different from my own, I absolutely must accept that way of life as necessarily equal to my own (or potentially better). My life and way of life is certainly not perfect, but the question should be "what is the 'perfect' or correct way to live?" as opposed to "how do we allow everyone to live as they wish and say it is perfectly acceptable?" To accept the second question means we must accept ways of life embraced by Hitler, Stalin, and others as "acceptable" because it's just a different way of living. The first question probably opens up a million more, though...

There we go...I have no doubt that because I won't accept every lifestyle as equally valid, I will be labeled by some as a "hater". To that I say it's easier to name-call than to have a genuine and serious discussion. Reply to this

16 years ago, May 6th 2008 No: 20 Msg: #34473  
B Posts: 228
Gary, I definitely understand what you are saying. As a woman, it is very tough for me to see and embrace cultures that basically (or should I say openly, as I think many cultures still do it secretly) consider women as inferior. On one hand, we could argue that every culture is different and that this is just the way in their culture, so why should it bother me. On the other hand, I don't like seeing women - or men or anyone - made to feel and act inferior just because a culture says that they are. So as you said, it is tough for me to say it's acceptable for a culture to treat women or any group this way, but on the other hand that is their culture and perhaps I shouldn't judge them just as I don't want them judging me. I think one thing that I strive to remember is that the culture as whole is different than the individual people in it. I was told one time when visiting a foreign country that the view many people have of Americans is that we're like the people on Jerry Springer! After getting over my embarrassment and shame of being likened to Jerry Springer guests, I thought about it and realized that this probably is how we portray ourselves via TV, Hollywood, etc. This made me think about how what we see in media about other cultures is only a very little part of the story. I think they can definitely help to bring things to light that we might not otherwise hear about, but I think that the only way to really see a culture and particularly the individuals in it is to visit, and that is where travel works to expand the mind so much. Reply to this

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