Are you religious? If so which religion are you?
What do you get out of being religious?
If you are not religious why not?
Oh, actually he was not denying the holocaust, no doubt that it happened. He was questioning the numbers, as there is conflicting information concerning the numbers. I read what happened and that really smells to high heaven. The interview took place in November, months before the press blew it up. The bishop belongs to the SSPX order, who is trying to re-unite with Rome. Benedict knew all about the comments long before he agreed they were close to a reunion. Then just after the agreement - Benedict blew up this old interview. This whole thing was politics.
Reply to this This whole thing was politics.
Incredible how badly people can behave in some situations!
Reply to this I find some of Dymphna comments deeply troubling for a number of reasons. Firstly, there can be no doubt that the role of Pope Pius XII during the Holocaust is deeply controversial (Link:
Pope Pius and the Holocaust .) Second, the 'it's only the numbers I doubt' is a standard defence of holocaust denying fascist fellow travellers.
Also I think I should point out a few things about the SSPX (Society of Pope Pius XII order). They are a small sect of conservative Catholics, who disagree with Vatican II. The SSPX have their greatest number of priests in France the country of their founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.
The reasons I find Dymphna and the SSPX troubling and even evil (although I don't like the word evil) can
be seen from the following extract of a wikipedia article on the SSPX
There is an overlap in French society between the SSPX's constituency of support and support for reactionary political positions. In the French context, such positions include:
* Condemnation of the 1789 French Revolution and of the French Republic, accompanied by support for the restoration of the absolutist French monarchy. Archbishop Lefebvre vocally condemned the Revolution. The French priest Fr. Paul Aulagnier, who has since left the SSPX and been reconciled with the Church hierarchy, was quoted in an SSPX periodical in 2001 as saying, while serving in Belgium (a constitutional monarchy): "I am pleased to be in Brussels - I who detest the republic and hate democracy."
* Support for the Vichy government (1940-1944). Lefebvre spoke approvingly of the "Catholic order of Pétain", referring to the Vichy head of state Philippe Pétain, who was later sentenced to death as a traitor. The Society's official journal in Belgium has denounced the anti-Vichy measures conducted after World War II by the mainstream French conservatives of Charles De Gaulle. There have also been allegations that the SSPX had links with the Vichy functionary Paul Touvier and that Vichy songs were learned at a scout camp of the Society (see below).
* Support for the Front National political party and its leader, Jean-Marie le Pen, who is on the far right of the political spectrum. In 1985, Lefebvre was quoted in the French far-right periodical Présent as endorsing Le Pen, though his endorsement was made on the basis that Le Pen was the only major French politician who unambiguously condemned abortion. In 1991, the then SSPX priest Fr. Philippe Laguérie called the Front National "the party least removed from the natural law".
* Support for the Forza Nuova political party and its leader, Roberto Fiore, a convicted terrorist and neo-fascist who is closely associated with the SSPX. Father Giulio Tam, head of the SSPX in Mexico, is a supporter of FN and, in April 2009, gave a Hitler salute at a meeting of European fascist parties in Milan.
Tam denied the previous month giving a Hitler salute at an FN rally, claiming that he was blessing "the young people of the Forza Nuova." Tam regards Italian dictator Benito Mussolini as a martyr and calls for blessing the fascist leader. In the past, Tam held masses at Mussolini's grave.
In the United States, the Society has been accused of spreading allegedly fascist, un-American political ideas, and undermining American patriotism.
Yeah right, Dymphna. If its about politics its about some pretty odious politics.
wikipedia Reply to this I am not part of SSPX - but will speak as well as I can for it. The French Revolution was denounced the whole Church for several reasons, but one of the main being that the revolutionaries expelled all Catholic clergy, took our property and made it a crime to hear Mass. In do so they close better than 90% of the schools (so much for being enlightened) and all hospitals, as they were run by the Catholic Church. So if they did denounce the French Revolution and all associated with it, it would not surprise me. History needs to be read from both sides in order to get a better picture of what happened. Victors do not tell their crimes. I will also denounce the French Revolution.
If there were salutes or Masses said where you state, I know nothing about them. Fascism has long been denounced by the Church as evil. Part of the problem is that the SSPX is a very loose knit organization so there are some in the organization who do some really strange things. It seems to be breaking into two separate factions at present, with one wanting reconciliation and one that does not want it.
No one is as ardent a patriot as I am. I tear up at a passing soldier. (Literally) There are many in the traditional crowd that are angry with the government - but no more so than I have seen in many other factions of life. We have our warts, but we are still the best for places to live.
I have a friend who has done a fair amount of research on the particular case of this bishop, which is why I know the some of the particulars on him. She runs a Traditional Catholic News Paper out of her house and has connections within many of the different factions. Btw, I would not trust wikipedia too much for all your information. They are a bit loose with sources at times.
Reply to this why do you want to be Catholics or Budist..I don't understand you
whatch this video learn Ebubekir - his name was Rubin before he was Muslim- why he became Muslim?
he explained that...
http://www.mucahitler.net/news.php?readmore=57
Reply to this Muvahhidullah - you are missing the question. This is not an opportunity to evangelize - it is a simple question of where you stand.
Reply to this Btw, I would not trust wikipedia too much for all your information. They are a bit loose with sources at times.
Really?
Fascism has long been denounced by the Church as evil.
I should hope so! But, isnt it a bit weird to actually denounce something that is obviously bad. Shouldnt it be something we take for granted, rather than something that we need to be told. How insensitive do people need to be, in order to not instinctively know things like this. I hope the Catholic church will soon also be denouncing sexism as evil. But, I suppose they would have to want it gone before they would consider denouncing it.
The holocaust: I dont know why churches are even discussing the numbers of people who died. A lot of people died and that is bad, and that is what is important to realise in my opinion.
Reply to this I don't understand you
Budism and Catholicism is likely important to others, for the same reasons as Islam is important to you. So, tell us about why Islam is important to you, and then others can maybe compare your reasons for Islam with their reasons for their religious preferences.
Reply to this Wikipedia can be altered from outside sources that are not always checked out completely. Actually there have been times that different pages have been hacked by outside sources and made a real mess of them.
When fascism grows, it is not in your face we have fascism. It is slow indoctrination of people. "Tax the rich - the rich are evil" slogans is how it starts. It divides the classes of people and creates greed for things we did not earn. If someone earns something - they should keep it - rather than like with FD Roosevelt who stated that anyone who makes over $25k a year should pay 100% in taxes, because they make too much. Why would I try to make any more than $25k if it all went to the government?
It is a slowly letting go of freedoms. Sure I can't do this, but the trains run on time and I have food on the table. Pretty soon, even the bad ideas start sounding good and reasonable. After all there is always a rationalization for them. A simple example: Seat belts should be worn, they are a safety measure - but it should be my choice and not a law that imposes that on me. The government should not be able to regulate me that way - it makes it so I don't have to take personal responsibilities. If I am injured or injure someone else, because I chose not to wear my seat belt, the government should not bail me out. We have gotten away from this and logic has started to erode because we are no longer having to make simple decisions in our personal life.
So the church comes in and makes a statement: Fascism is bad! The person is then required to find out what fascism is - according to a recent the book Liberal Fascism, the definition is loose on fascism. But the best way they could define it is the marriage of government to fiance and commerce. In other words, the government controls both areas. Well then why is this bad? For someone who has grown up in a system like this, they may never have questioned it. For someone who is being lulled to sleep as it happens around them, this is an awakening and red alert. Until we realize there is a problem we can't do anything about it.
I do agree with you about the holocaust. Whether it was 250,000 people killed or 6 million killed it is bad and should never have been repeated, as it has so many times already. What is sadder is that Benedict came down far harder on this bishop over questioning numbers in the holocaust than he ever did about the pedophiles, which he was a great part of before the election. This shows a great loss in perspective and what he should be doing.
Reply to this The State stood idly by as thousands of children were subjected to a horrific litany of physical and sexual abuse in institutions run by religious orders.
State of shame
I dont know if this completely belongs in this thread or not..... But, a lot of religious power structures seem to be responsible for abuse of women and children. I personally wish reports like this one were broader. The church is only one power system that failed/refused to take into consideration the needs of women and children. All the aggression and anger about what happened is aimed at the church, when in fact there was no legislation to protect women and children in Ireland from violence and abuse until too recently.
I tend to think that reports like this are almost a denial of the extent of the problems women and children face in not just Ireland, but the rest of the world. The reality is the entire power structure of society is balanced heavily against wormen and as a result children also suffer when women cant protect and care for them in inadequate social structures. But, I suppose there are other reports that cover other areas, so maybe I just need to have more patience with the world while it slowly opens its mind.
Reply to this You are right. This is part of the problem with the new church. Benedict was the head of this area in Rome before the election. In the past, the Church had authorities over the priests in this area, because there were Church prisons and when it happened they were dealt with severely. There were laws where only the Church could deal with clergy who had committed such crimes and they did deal with it. But we no longer live in those times and rather than people turning it in to state authorities, they went to the bishop. These bishops are so corrupt I would not trust any of them. Now, because of the changes, they are short on priests and are afraid of loosing a body to a point that it has created so much pain and scandal. Instead of taking care of the problem they have made it worse, and I won't defend them at all on this point and is just one more reason I won't recognize Benedict as a true pope.
Reply to this If the Roman Catholic Church would allow the priests to marry there would not be all of the problems that they have. Its not enough to apologise for it but something must be done to change the ideas of their church if they want it to stop. I still believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Great High Priest to come to too get our sins forgiven and not a mortal man such as priests or vicors. But they still should change their ideas on allowing their priests to marry which is a good thing to God our Creator for men and women. Sincerely; George
Reply to this I think suggesting that Catholic priests be allowed to marry as a solution to paedophelic and violence against innocent children tendencies that some of them have is weird. People with those tendencies should be kept away from women and children.
Reply to this I agree Mell. It is too hard on a family to be married with a priest situation anyways. That is why the Church in her wisdom put an end to it. Children and spouses were being ignored, or priestly duties were being ignored. The to spots just don't mix well.
Reply to this Im glad that God in his infinate wisdom said he is the one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus. And who can forgive sins but God and also Marriage is honourable in all,and the bed undefiled,but whoremongers and adulters God will judge.Hebrews 13:4, 1ST tIMOTHY 2:5, From the Authorized King James Holy Bible,the preserved word of Almighty God. And except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish,Luke 13:3 as well as Acts 16:30-31 What must I do to be saved ? And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved,and thy house. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus;and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9. Gods wisdom is light years ahead of mans since he said my thoughts are not your thoughts ,neither are you ways my ways,saith The Lord. Look to him for the answers and he will give them and disolve every doubt. Sincerely George
Reply to this İslam and Muslim?
why don't you search this? you will be happy to İslam...muslims don't terorist..
Reply to this ...muslims don't terorist..
I think it is terrorists who terrorise. Some claim to do it in the name of religion, but I think there is more to it than that.
Reply to this The real world was always religious wet .. He was sent to all mankind by Allah. We make no distinction between the Prophet we .. we Hz. Muhammed (as) what you mean Hz. Jesus also Hz. Moses Hz. Abraham is the same meaning expressed in this world .. God people were sent to serve them ... At first, Noah. After Ibrahim Musa isonra after Jesus and Mohammed came to the end .. of course all religions before Islam itself collect them in the direction that is missing from the completed .. the only religion is Islam the last religion other than Islam salvation .. There is no way .. that other religions kuurtuluş seekers unhappiness is the end ..
Islam is a bad review do not have to change ... .. sincerely selametle
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