What do you consider a 'real' image?
Is it ok to take people out/amend the sky or sunlight of your pic to get that perfect image??
What free package would you recommend for someone like us who would like to play around with enhancing images?
We believe the picture is that captured by the camera at the time. None of our pics have been amended, however we've seen loads of pics that clearly are (not all on TB), some look GREAT!
Sarah & Mike
Reply to this Good questions!
I'll own up to "cropping and shopping" most of my underwater shots... it's almost essential to adjust the colour on some shots. I try to only adjust other images very slightly, a little extra contrast, a little sharpening, maybe a little cropping.
What I consider a real image is a very broad spectrum - anything that could have been achieved with the proper use of either filters, framing, film and in the developing process - to my mind achieved in post-processing - is fair. The range is wide - pre-digital
Velvia film was extremely popular and initially controversial due to it's almost surreal colour qualities.
As for a definition - an image that couldn't have been possible pre-computer age - might still be considered art - but not photography... probably needs a little more work for a comprehensive definition 😊
Free photography touch up software:
Picasa is very good...
Reply to this So I use photoshop CS3, so I'm not much help when it comes to free software...
When it comes to 'manipulating' pictures, the first thing to remember is that film photographers have been manipulating their pictures for almost 100 years. The really popular film techniques involved sharpening, working on contrast and tons of dodging and burning (that is selectively lightening and darkening sections of a photo to emphasize the parts you want).
I spend tons of time on sharpening and contrast in particular. Film is a much sharper medium than digital due to the size of most film sensors, specially if you are using a "point-and-shoot" digital instead of a DSLR. (Side note: the number of megapixels does very little to enhance the sharpness of your photo. Once you get above 6 megapixels, you really haven't done much to help. The actual sharpness of a picture , beyond focus, is the size of the medium you are using. Thus, a DSLR is sharper than a "Point-and-Shoot", and a Full frame DSLR is sharper than a crop digital DSLR, 35mm is sharper or possibly as sharp as a full frame DSLR, and a 4X5 film camera is sharper than 35mm. You get the point) Thus, I spend tons of time trying to get the picture as sharp as possible using various techniques.
I have cropped people out and "airbrushed" pimples from people's faces, but I don't do it frequently. 😊
I would have to say, in my opinion, if you are a digital photographer and you don't do work post-camera, then you aren't really a photographer. Others would disagree here and I understand why, but in many people's opinion you weren't a film photographer unless you could do the darkroom development work on your own pictures either. The work you do in the computer is just as important, sometimes maybe even more important, than what you do with the camera.
As digital gets better that may change some (the newest top of the line Canon is almost as good as a 4x5 film camera) but people will always need to know how to make the final pictures be the best they can be.
Reply to this Here's some interesting examples of pre and post processed images that I sell on my website. I don't believe that they are any less real but the processed versions are MUCH better in my opinion:
The one's on the right are raw images that haven't been processed (other than to make them small enough to put on this site)
The ones on the left are the processed images that I sell on my website.
As you can tell, the saturation and sharpness of the lion have been changed while the Irish landscape (close to your home I believe!) was changed to B&W, brightened and sharpened. Also the clouds were burned and part of the hills, while the road was dodged in order to make your eye travel the length of the road.
Makes a difference, no?
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WOW, what a difference! Although they were fab to start with I might add!!
Thanks for the tip Ali, we've downloaded Picasa, so we'll see how that goes.
It is interesting to hear your thoughts on photo editing. I have seen some images that are shopped so much they look like two images superimposed onto each other. Like people standing infront of a building that would be physically impossible. It disappoints me to think these images will be seen by people who may not have had the opportunity to see it in real life and think they actually look like that!
However I guess you could say the same about scale, by that I mean I saw the White House for the first time tonight and it looks tiny compared to the images on TV! :-)
Reply to this I agree with you when it comes to "over" photoshopping. Its sad to see people who spend more time working the picture in a computer than they did actually taking the picture. I, personally, will never add anything to a picture that wasn't there too begin with. I may change a picture by taking something out like say erasing a crazy japanese tourist who refused to get out of my way. 😊 I also may try something absolutely crazy with a picture thats a loss ad just a piece of poo but never will I add something. Its my preference to manipulate pictures to make them look like they did through my eyes. So, I'll refresh color or contrast but rarely do I do anything nuts in photoshop.
That scale thing you talk about is a function of optics and something I could talk about all day.
BTW, we live only a few hours from Washington. How long are you around for?
Reply to this What about for editing / cropping / resizing while on the road? Any good, free online editing sites? What about this photoshop express? I understand we can upload our pics online then resize, crop etc (basically for sure). Is it then easy to get them into a blog here? Or is there some other site better? Its a hassle downloading a resizing program every time, especially when using an internet cafe or someone elses computer.
Thanks.
Reply to this Oh no... this is where i get really confused in my own work.
I used to shoot B/W film back in highschool and up until a couple years ago. Using the darkroom for prints introduced inherent post-shooting processing into the mix and you could always play with cropping, resizing, dodging/burning, contrast, and even add neat effects using filters and amending negatives with a microscope. I never felt bad doing that, ever.
For some reason, once I switched to Digital and Photoshop as my darkroom I've been a lot more reticent regarding editing my photos. something about the somewhat artificial process of going in and clicking buttons to manipulate the image makes me balk at doing any more than cropping, color-balancing, and correcting contrast. I should relaly get over this, because a lot of my photos have publishing potential but I've never been willing to "mutilate" them to get them to where they need to be. On the other hand, I really tend to reject the notion that changing a photo in photoshop is unethical or any less important than the photo itself. I think the average photographer spends a lot more time sorting and editing photos than he does actually shooting them.
As for on the road, Picasa has a GREAT auto-correct feature that works on maybe 60-70% of photos. Really great for point-and-shoots also.
Reply to this I sharpen all my images, but try to only edit them slightly.
Reply to this I use Paint shop pro 8 for all my pics, it's not free but well worth it... I tend to run the photos through the auto correct but sometimes it just destroys them!
Like Ali, I definately run all my underwater shots through a colour balance filter, it's amazing what it does to remove the blue and put the colour back into the subject! 😊
Reply to this Reading this makes me realise that I want to make more of an effort to edit my digital pictures. I am prepared to buy some software but my budget certainly does not stretch to the full version of photoshop. The question is should I go for Photoshop elements 6 or Paint shop Pro X2?
One of the main things I would like to do is to improve the colour saturation on lots of my shots like Team Turner has done on the lion shot but I suspect that was done in photoshop.
Life was simplier when I just took photos on film and I just had to accept the outcome!
Reply to this That was done in Photoshop CS3 but I have used both Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop elements 6. I would suggest Paint Shop Pro if you are just going to buy one because it has a few features that are better than Elements. The only downside is that, if you ever decide to jump all the way to pro level equipment, Paint Shop doesn't help you with a discount the way elements does.
If you look at my blog, about 80% of those blogs was done on Paint Shop which I had on the laptop I carried RTW. It wasn't until I returned home that I was able to upgrade to CS3.
Hope that helps!
Mike T
Reply to this Hi - good topic for a thread. When I'm posting pics on Travelblog, they come straight from the camera with no editting/manipulation at all. Once I'm home and printing them, I'll use a combination of rawtherapee (which is free) and is excellent for manipulating RAW images, then some final touch up in Photoshop.
Reply to this Piscasa2, which is free from Google website. Use it, your be happy.
Reply to this I'm more into taking photos of me than of the sights. I edit the photos, yes, but only to take my pimples away! Hahaha..
Reply to this I just wanted to share this little image - before I get stuck into some serious bug fixing - this shot prior to a little contrast and sharpening was one I almost overlooked including.
Picasa to the rescue - it's a pain for some things - hate the way it wants to take over my computer in an itunes like way - but quick and painless image editing one of the best.
In the completed shot - it's possible to make out 7 manta rays - in the original - only 4.
If you're worried about the reality of the shot - the completed version is how I saw it - our eyes are much better than cameras better acuity, contrast, colours the lot - the work I did on the photo gets it closer to what I experienced - some shots in situations like this need it - some don't - some become works of art with editing - I don't see any moral dilemma over this - the stories that hit the headlines - photo journalists being sacked - involve extra things being added or things removed - rather than ratios being tweaked.
Reply to this Thanks for that addition Ali, your most recent underwater shots are glorious.
BTW, I just read this morning that the camera (a digital) can handle up to five stops of light variation in one picture...our eyes can handle 27 stops. That is a huge difference between what your eyes see and what a camera can actually pickup.
Reply to this Picase just came out with version 3, its a free download from Google. Get it, try it and you will never look back. I own CS#3 (photoshop) Lightroom2 and use Piscase 90% of the time. Why it sorts my file , easy to straighten pic, just added new spot or blemish remover, has easy and quick adjust images for white balance. My editing usually is cropping, very little sharpening because my Canon 5D and L glass lenses render me sharp pictures. I also have IS Image stablizer on my lenses so most pictures are crisp and clear. Just took trip to Scotland and Paris (Sept 15 to 29) took approx 800 to 1000 pictures a day. So its important to me to have software that is fast, easy and enhances my pictures when needed. Try Google you have nothing to lose...
Reply to this Check out the Louvre pictures. I've adjusted the sky in different photos with Piscasa 3.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/692308/0#6230257
Reply to this I'm fine with photoshopping my photos. I believe most pictures that you seen on magazines, posters, websites, etc are all digitally touched up. This is what we called as Digital Darkroom. It's another skill on top of photoshooting itself. Firstly you need to shoot a picture with a good composition and then you can further touch up the contrasts, levels, colors, etc of the picture to make it looks much better.
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