Interview with German Guaygua

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Interview (paraphrased and translated from Spanish to English): German Guaygua

Relevance: Professor of Sociology at UMSA (Universidad Mayor de San Andres)

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G: “This theme has been debated over and over again. It is one of the most innovative proposals of the constitution. Now, how do we implement the concept of community justice?... In some cases there is a marked process of “reinvicación” . In other cases, such as with the Aymaras, Quechuas, and Guaranies, it not a matter of recovering the cultural values, because they are still very much alive. The Aymaras take justice into their own hands, such as in Achacachi. About a month ago, there was the death of four policemen in Potosí. Some structures are much more organized than others. Maybe I can get you some books on the Quechuas in the ayllus north of Potosi. Also, we can find it in the more Aymara region, like in Achacachi, they are more rebellious and confrontational. They have always opposed the government in power since colonial times. Some historical rebellions include that of Tomas Katari and Tupac Katari. Also, closer to La Paz is Ayo Ayo and the region around the shores of Lago Titicaca.”

Me: “Is Ayo Ayo where they burnt the mayor?”

G: “Yes, about three years ago. That had to do with bad governance. There is another case that would be interesting to look at, which is the case of Carangas in Oruro. In that case, you can look at the structure of the ayllu (community), which is better organized than in other communities. The ponchos verdes (traditional green clothing) are in the Carangas and the poncho rojos (traditional red clothing) are in Achacachi (different regions are identified by the color of their ponchos).”
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G: “The implementation of community justice is still a work in progress. Regarding the autonomy law, maybe you can talk to Claudia Peña, the viceminister of autonomy. It is a matter of economic resources and all other considerations that come into play under the concept of autonomy. It is a matter of each region’s ability to implement its law through the legislative assembly.”

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Regarding the structure of authorities:

G: “You should take a look at “La Ley de Ayllu” by Marcelo Fernandez. The structure of the ayllus are closely related to “sindicalismo“, a trade union movement representing peasants (workers and miners unions). For example, the Secretary General of one of these labor movements also holds a position of authority. I can help you set up some interviews with people from Achacachi.

Demian Pozo (graduate researcher from Tulane University Law School): “We can understand the structure of authorities from books and other publications. We are more interested in the opinions of the people and how specific processes are adjudicated.”

G: “Perhaps they can come here to the city or even better to el Alto.”

Me: “The portrayal of community justice is often cast in a negative light and associated with violence, what is your opinion about that?”

G: “That just shows a lack of knowledge on the subject. It is really a political process and if you don’t know the historical context, then it is difficult to properly understand. When people portray it as barbaric and violent, then it reveals ignorance to the reality of another culture. The segregation of cultures should be relegated to the past.”

*Chicotazos = whippings as punishment for crimes (an example of an traditional community justice practice that others find to be violent and savage)
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G: “Community justice is related to the process of decolonization. There are historical reasons behind these practices, not to justify revenge, but it is a complicated subject. I don’t know if you are aware of the Guerra Federal (Federal War) related to the move of the capital city from Sucre to La Paz. The conservatives from Sucre and liberals from La Paz were opposed to one another. In Ayo Ayo, there was a case of executions related to the war. So the judicial power is still based in Sucre and tends to be more conservative, but the liberals brought the political power to La Paz.”

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G: “There are strengths and weaknesses to the ongoing process of community justice. Communal authorities are closely related to the ownership of land. If you own land, you not only have the right to exercise authority, but the duty to do so. There is also an automatic rotation of authorities tied to land ownership. When they take office, it is not just a political event, but a cultural and religious event as well, a celebration. The other interesting thing is the absence of the state (central government). In the north of Potosí, there has started to be confrontations between different ayllus due to land border disputes.”

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G: “There are different levels of autonomy and other attributes that still need to be figured out regarding community justice. I would be happy to help you set up more interviews with community members, and we can have a follow up meeting to extrapolate on the historical aspects involved with this topic. Sometimes it is complicated to access these communities, because they will ask you for your political affiliation or for money. It is important that you integrate yourselves into the community, and participate fully in their customs and traditions. Also, I have a son who is in his first year of law school, maybe you can speak with him as well.”

Me: “That sounds great, this is something that I would like to inform people of in the United States and I plan on presenting this topic upon my return there. Thank you very much for meeting with me and offering further contacts.”

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