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Asia » China
June 7th 2005
Published: July 28th 2005
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Hi
This is a true story. Even though it's hard to believe it happened. Took me a while to fully comprehend it, and I really want all travelers to know all about it.
We were in Yining, a sleepy little town in Xinjiang, near the border of Kazakhstan. We were looking for interesting things to do and see in that area. A couple of local students told us about an area of grasslands nearby that is very beautiful. We went to a travel agency and they also told us about this place, and even gave us a map and showed us where it is, wrote for us all the names in Chinese, and explained to us where we can take a bus to get there.
The next morning we went to the bus station, and bought a ticket to the five hours ride.
The name of the place we were heading is Narati Grasslands. Remember the name. Avoid this place!
When we arrived to the town we saw big signs with pictures of the nature park, and some locals offered us a ride to the park itself.
We were hungry after the bus ride, so we first went into a restaurant to have something to eat. Less than 30 minutes later a big guy entered the restaurant and sat at our table. His attitude was aggressive, and he kept saying this one word "hujao". We didn't quite understand what that means, and we tried to find it in the phrasebook, and with the help of some locals we understood that this word means "passport". This has happened before, and people here ask to see passports sometimes, so we let him take a look in our passports. He first looked at the visas, which were OK, and then looked some more and started to look in some papers we had there as well. That was a little too much for me, and I took my passport back. Then he started yelling at us, and we didn't understand why. The owner of the restaurant implied that we should listen to that man, even though he was dressed up in civilian cloths and presented no ID.
We showed him in the phrase book the part about the police, and he pointed at a word that means "permit". We know that there are some parts in China that require a special permit from the police before traveling there, and it is always mentioned in the guide books, and the travel agencies also tell you if you need it. In this case we had no clue that such a permit is required - not from the book, not from the travel agency, not from the bus station where we bought the tickets, and not even from the locals.
We understood that he doesn't want us here, and we really didn't want to make any troubles, so we took out the map that we got at the travel agency and showed it to him. We pointed at the other places on the map and asked him "OK?", and he just kept yelling and saying no to everything we say. We were willing to get on the next bus to any place he would say. He just refused to anything.
At first we were polite and showed him in the phrase book that we would like to speak with somebody who speaks English. He made some phone calls. We waited there for about 30 more minutes, and then we decided that this is more than enough of time to waste on somebody who just approaches us in a restaurant and refuses to introduce himself.
We put our big bags on our backs and headed for the door. Then, another guy closed the doors, and both of them just stood there and refused to let us out. When we tried to pass around them they pushed us back, and started shouting. At this stage I got angry and a little worried, and I showed them in the phrase book the word for a "police station". We tried to explain to them that we want to go there, or to call them, and they kept shouting, pushing us back, and using extreme force on us.
By that time many locals gathered to watch the show through the window of the restaurant, and some more people were inside the restaurant. They were all watching two big guys pushing, grabbing, almost hitting, two foreigners with huge and heavy backpacks on their back, that do not try to hit back. Just to make sure nobody misses that point - one of the foreigners was a woman!
At that point, after 20 minutes of struggle, I went to the phone in the restaurant, asked the owner to allow long distance calls, and I called my embassy, explaining to them that I am being held locked in a restaurant by two local strangers.
The embassy put a translator on the line who talked to the violent man who looked in our passports. After a long conversation with him they explained to us that this man is a police officer, we arrived to a place that is restricted for foreigners, and that he claims that we also attacked him. They also said that the police requires us to hand them our passports, which means that we will need to pay a fine in order to get them back.
We couldn't believe it. We arrived to a place that was recommended to us by a travel agency, not knowing that it is restricted, nobody stopped us along the way, we were there for less than 30 minutes, sitting in a restaurant, agreed to leave as soon as we found out that we are not welcomed there, were attacked by a police officer who refused to identity himself as one, and eventually we are the criminals here???
Our embassy wasn't such a big rescue - all they did was to tell us to do whatever the police tells us, to stop making any troubles, and to ignore the fact that we were attacked. They even mentioned the fact that China has the highest rate of death penalty in the world - so maybe we should be happy that we only got a fine.
So the police took our passports, and then the owner of the restaurant said that he lost many customers today while the doors were locked, and that we should pay him for that!!! That was just too much. We asked specifically to leave that restaurant and go to a police station. We refused to pay anything more than the cost of that phone call we made to the embassy.
They took us to another city, put us there for the night, and told us to come in the morning to the police station.
That night I could barely sleep. I had no passport, already a prisoner in China, and I realized that the corrupt officer can just charge me with anything he wants, and there is nobody in this world, including my embassy, that will help me.
In the morning we went to the police station, and were asked to write a statement with everything that has happened. We didn't understand what exactly they wanted, and they showed us three examples of such statements, from three different travelers who arrived to the same place. The statements all ended in the words "I realize that I broke the Chinese law, I am sorry for that, and I understand that I need to pay a fine". Then we understood that it's just a tourist trap - the send people there, fine them, and make some extra money.
We wrote the statement, for more than two hours, with all the details about the travel agency, the amount of time we spent in the town (not even in the park!), and the attack of the police officer who refused to identify as one. They read it in five minutes, probably didn't understand half of it (even though they brought a translator - an English teacher from the local school), and then they said that we can pay the fine (60$ per person) of refuse to pay it and then they would take us to the capital of the region to be treated there. We called the embassy again. This time they were surprised that we are still in that mess. They said they thought that it all ended the day before. We understood that they really are working hard with their attempts to help us, and that they are in constant contact with the Chinese police. Then they said that we should really stop making so much trouble, and that the police said that they will throw is out of the country if we don't start to cooperate soon.
Without too many choices, we paid the fine, signed many forms that we don't understand, and hoped that at least that would be the end of it.
We actually got our passports back after that, and were taken to the bus station to be sent away from that area.
We were so shocked with the experience, and the first thing that we were both thinking about is - leave China, never come back again. This was just a live example of how it is to be in a country with no freedom, with no real human rights.
We went back to Yining, and from there immediately took a but to Urumqi. By that time we relaxed a little bit, and decided to get back to the original plan - the Silk Road.






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28th July 2005

Copy of Passport
One thing to keep in mind always make multiple copies of your passport and keep them in various locations in your packs and on your person. These should be as good as the originals if you get in a situation like this. At least you will have some proof of the original passport that you can take to the US embassy and get a new one.
28th July 2005

wow..
Wow, what an experience that must have been with those cops. I'm sure it made you bitter, mad, exploited, etc. as it would have made me feel the same way. Did you ever go back to the travel agency to raise some hell with them? Perhaps posting their names on a website as uninformative bastards would be some good retribution.
28th July 2005

Always have a copy of your passport
I made a comment prior to logging in but it is not there yet. I always had multiple paper copies of my passport while overseas. Leave a copy at home and keep copies in various locations in your pack and on your persons. It is not the original but will help when you can get to your embassy and explain the situation.
28th July 2005

Wow!!
Sounds like a very scary experience. I have had similar experiences in the Middle East - Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Where there is no democracy, there is no freedom. You are at the mercy of thugs and corrupt authorities.
28th July 2005

Jeez
We can only say we feel for you. Glad you managed to sort it all out and hope it doesn't spoil the rest of your travels - great to hear you are continuing as planned.
29th July 2005

I'm sorry for that.
it's sad to read this story, double sad for me cos i'm Chinese. I feel sorry for you both. However, I still wanna say something(though with mixed feelings). First:sorry. Second: I can't agree with " leave China, never come back again. This was just a live example of how it is to be in a country with no freedom, with no real human rights." I have to say, similar things can happen to foreign visitors in any country and also did happen many times(no offense)in USA. It has little to do with "democracy" but a lot with "You're a visitor." It's alike(though much worse) when I travel to some towns without knowing any dialects and I'll be cheated by those chapmen. Again:sorry for all of you and hope you'll enjoy the continued trip.
29th July 2005

a list where foreigners don't need a travel permit.
Foreigners can come to the following 29 cities without travel permits. They are: Beijing Tianjin Shanghai Qinhuangdao Taiyuan Shenyang Changchun Harbin Nanjing Suzhou Wuxi Hangzhou Jinan Qingdao Zhengzhou Kaifeng Luoyang Wuhan Changsha Guangzhou Foshan Zhaoqing Nanning Guilin Xi'an Chengdu Chongqing Kunming Lunan(town) Please be sure to apply a travel permit when you plan to visit any city not in the list above.
29th July 2005

a list where foreigners normally can get a travel permit without any difficulty
Heibei Province(Pro):Shijiazhuang Chengde Pinshan Zhao Zunhua(Zunhua except Jul,Aug and Nov) Shanxi Pro:Datong Neimenggu Pro:Baotou Huhehaote Liaoning Pro:Dalian Anshan Fushun Jingzhou Dandong Liaoyang Yingkou Benxi Jilin Pro: Jilin Antu Heilongjiang Pro: Daqing Qiqihaer Mudanjiang Jiamusi Yichun Jiangsu Pro: Xuzhou Yangzhou Changzhou Zhenjiang Lianyungang Huaian Yixing Zhejiang Pro: Shaoxing Ningbo Wenzhou Deqing Anhui Pro:Hefei Wuhu Maanshan Qingyang Huangshan Tunxi Fenghu Fujian Pro: Fuzhou Quanzhou Zhangzhou Xiamen Wuxishan Jiangxi Pro: Nanchang Jingdezhen Jiujiang Jingangshan Pengze Shangdong Pro: Yantai Liubo Taian Quhu Kenli Henan Pro: Anyang Xinxiang Lin Gong Xinyang Sanmanxia Xinxiang Hui Yu Hubei Pro: Shashi Xiangfan Xianning Jun Yichang Jianglin Hunan Pro: Yueyang Hengyang Xiangtan(city) Xiangtan(town) Hengshan Guangxi Pro: Liuzhou Wuming Binyang Guiping Wuzhou Xingan Beihai Lingchuan Yining(not the one Eldar visited) Sichuan Pro: Leshan Wanxian E'mei Xindu Guan Meishan Zhong Yunyang Fengjie Wushan Dazu Shanxi Pro: Yanan Xianyang Lintong Gansu Pro: Lanzhou Jiayuguan Jiuquan Dunhuan Guangdong Pro: Shenzhen Zhuhai Jiangkou Haikou Nanhai Zhongshan Shunde Qingyuan Xinhui Guizhou Pro: Guiyang Zhenning XINJIANG PRO: Wulumuqi Wuhezi Tulufan Kashen Kuche Akesu(Akesu is limited to climbers) Eldar, I don't wanna say this at this momnet, but you did break the law. Because places where're not mentioned in the two lists normally are not open to foreigners. You have to have REASONS(or travel with a travel agency on a fixed route) like investment to apply a SPECIAL permit not just to police station but many other departments in the Army.Chinese people normally don't know anything about those two lists because they don't have to. I suggest foreigners who plan to visit places like Xinjiang, Xizang call a travel agency in (big) cities and ask them to take care everything for you. In that way you may lose the joy of traveling by yourselves, but you don't have to worry about the permit.
29th July 2005

Scary...
We holidayed in China just over a year back and it was a fantastic vacation. Of course we stuck to the cities. However, even there, we were always that extra bit cautious. Its scary what you went through. It makes me appreciate the democracy my country is and the freedom I enjoy.
29th July 2005

I only tell the truth, no matter what.
To be honest(I live in Shenzhen), I seldom go out at night. If I'm out, I only go to places like shopping malls, restaurants where are full of people. Without my guy friends, i never ever take a bus home(not to mention walk home)- always cab. That costs a lot, but it worths. I think in cities, you have to pay esp attention to your personal belongings, but don't need to worry much abt other things. While in some remote villages ot towns, things are much more complicated. When I looked up info abt places that open to foreigners, I found this:" Places that open to foreigners have to satisfy four things. 1 They attract people; 2 Stable society and good SECURITY; 3 They have hotels, translators, buses and related facility; 4 Not related to nation secrets." There're a lot places esp towns and villages that gov can't control(beyond imagination). Those residents there have their own "laws". Here's a real story I've read on newspaper. A Chinese woman had been brought to a village by force and "sold" to a man as his wife. All the villagers knew abt her and even some ppl from other villagers heard abt her. She tried millions of times to run away but failed. Because those villagers not just kept her existence as a secret to the outside but also stopped her from running away TOGETHER. After 10 years, she finally made a call to the police station in a nearby city and when they came to rescue her, all the villagers stood in front of the police car until the police used water to dissipate them. My suggestion is do not go to remote places like Xinjiang, Xizang,etc alone or only with friends. In those places, sometimes even Chinese gov can't help much(not to mention an embassy!). Plus: Rome can't be built in one day. I believe my gov is trying her best. Double population means triple troubles(do I have to say how many ppl there're in China?) Thank you for your patience.
29th July 2005

Don't go there!
Personal Rule: Don't go to places where you can easily get in trouble. There is too much of the world that is civilized, why go to the other parts? Unless you are there as an abassador of US military might.
29th July 2005

i am sometimes sick of democracy cries of western people, when they faced something abroad. Is the homeland(!) your relative point of freedom and democracy. How many years passed since the people in an army base has been helding (needless to say) without any proof of crime. Neither they're lucky enough to write their adventures to a weblog nor has and effect to awake millions of sleepy free and democracy believer people living in jesusland happyly. How many guns has been sold and how many spies provoked people of uncivilised and undemocratic lands by the country of freedom. C'mon you guys, don't be just tourists wander in "cool" places. Don't put the words of freedom and democracy to your mouths that cheap. Democracy is easy when you have 300 millions of people who are full of greed and passion to MAKE MORE MONEY and has the dream of watching superbowl live.
30th July 2005

Wonder's comments
WRT Wonder's comments - on the one hand I agree with Wonder's comments (I haven't read it all) about police brutality not necessarily being a function of the political system - I heard a very scary first-handstory recently from a British Barrister about the Miami police. On the other hand, whilst Mr Eldar may have broken Chinese law, SO DID THE CHINESE POLICE WHO DEALT WITH HIM. Let's not forget that.
30th July 2005

two things
1 I'm sorry. Eldar, would you please delete one of my messages?(A list where foreigners normally can get a travel permit.) I've been looking for info abt foreign visitors,and today I found out that list (also found on-line) was published in 1982, which is not accurate rite now. Sorry to those who read it! Here's the info."1 There're more than 1440 cities or towns that open to foreigners where you don't a permit(just visa); 2 There're some places that partly open where you need a permit(but you can easily get it); 3 There're places that only open to foreigners with appropriate reasons like investment; that'll be hard to get a permit; 4 The other places are not open to foreigners(Pay special attention! If you accidentally step into military important places, that's huge!) If you come to places of 2,3,4 without a permit, you'll get a fine or a detention no more than 10 days at least.(Sorry to Ali) I haven't found a complete city list where foreigners don't need permits. I called my mom's friend who works in a travel agency, and she didn't have that list neither. She only told me that foreigners need permit to visit Xizang and they should be really cautious cos like Xinjiang, Xizang is a political-sensitive place. My suggestion is: Call a travel agency in a big city like Beijing Shanghai to ask for your info before you go. This is China. It has its own law. Don't disrespect it just because the law in your country is different or you don't think the law should be like that. The law is the law. 2 To Cumberland Sausage:(Are Cumberland Sausages specially delicious?) Yes, I also think the police's action is inappropriate(though I haven't found y he broke the law.) He is rude and not civilized. However, to be honest, do ppl really expect the police there is polite, english-speaking and civilized? I bet the officer Mr.Eldar met hasn't finished his high school education. Not according Eldar's description, but my knowledge of China. There're tons of ppl whose family can't afford their high school education, esp in remote towns in Xinjiang. Do you know how surprised I was when I knew they found Eldar an English teacher? I don't think many ppl here understands how much effort they may have given to find an English teacher. Still, I think it has little to do with "democracy" or "freedom". It's abt poverty.
30th July 2005

How can we know if we need a permit?
As you can see, even a Chinese woman can't tell you where you can or cannot travel. How can a tourist, who can't really speak the language, know it? Why do you sell a bus ticket to a place that is closed for foreigners? Why does a travel agency sends tourists to such a place without a warning? I guess this is just another way of making money out of tourists - a typical tourist trap!
30th July 2005

NO,IT'S NOT.
From the document Eldar provided, I can be sure the grassland isn't totally closed to foreigners-you only need to get a permit. If you step into a place where is CLOSED to foreigners, you'll be in big trouble. 1 my mom's friend doesn't know cos she don't need to. She told me that no foreigners EVER called them to ask for info-foreigners love traveling alone or with friends. 2 Be smart. Do you think the police station will ever give Eldar and his friends a document(as the picture above) saying y they'd get a fine if that's a trap? I've encountered a trap myself; the officer didn't give me such a document because that may become the evidence for me to charge him back. 3 There're many travel agencies that are not eligible to apply a permit for their foreign clients, and I believe the one Eldar came to is one of them. that's why they didn't tell him cos they may don't know themselves. The same with the bus station and the local ppl. So I keep saying,for your sake, to call a travel agency in a big city before you go. 4 If the local travel agency doesn't know, the bus station doesn't know, and the local people don't know, why should foreigners know? The reason is simple-they won't be charged but you will. Getting info in China may not be as handy as in developed countries, but that can never be the reason to break the law. My friend went to Xizang a couple of months ago- he went with his friends. Before he departed, he'd made everything clear and I never heard him complaining "oh, that's so complicated; why should I ever do it?" It's you not bus station sales or local students who want to visit there. But, at the same time, i think the local travel agency has responsibility.put its name down and inform others of their lack of knowledge.
30th July 2005

some words to "Anonymous"
Have you ever considered why I'd spend much time on-line searching and make serveral calls to my mom's friends when I don't need the information myself? Because I know Eldar's sad experience happened due to misunderstanding and both side's lack of needed knowledge AND that could be avoided. Because I wish all travelers can enjoy their trips and I'd be happy to share them my experience and info(not just abt China)if i could help. Have you ever appreciated my effort instead of just complaining? If bad things had happened to Eldar, what should we do next? All foreigners never come to China(is that realistics?) or we do sth together to prevent that happening again? Should we ask USA(or other countries that have "DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM") gov to punish the local bus station, that travel agency and the police officer(how?)? Complaint never makes things better while the share of experience, information and suggestion does.
30th July 2005

back to wonder
To reply to Wonder's reply to my reply - the text describes how the police physically assaulted both parties without necessary provocation. I'm not an expert in Chinese law but I very much doubt the statues give the police a free hand to assault people when and where they please. Ok they might take the old Soviet route (and increasingly US/UK route) of addng 'except in special circumstances' etc. I've read the rest of your comments and I agree from what you say that there is a risk associated with travelling in areas of China (and the same applies to almost any country) and I also applaud your commenting on this from a Chinese perspective. It was only my immediate reaction to the 'well they broke the law' attitude, which they also recieved from their embassy, that got my gander. A Cumberland Sausage is as a very tasty spicy (well seasoned) sausage which is a traditional dish from where I was brought up - Cumberland. Thanks for asking ;-)
30th July 2005

If in doubt ask your embassy.
One thing to keep in mind is to ask your embassy for lists of places to go to in any country you visit. They should have that information readily avaliable. This information will keep you from having to go through this grief. You should do this for any country that you visit. Especially where locals might take the law in there own hands. I live in small town USA and really the only thing that you have to worry about is tresspassing on private property or crime in a bad part of town. Every country in this world has people that will take advantage of foreigners, democracy or no democracy. It is sad but true.
31st July 2005

you don't think that that kind of shit does not happen anywhere else it the world, like the states or the UK or Australia. I though the story was good but the lame ass comment at the end made me feel no simpathy. Shit happen, everywhere!
31st July 2005

It reminds me my Bolivian experience
I wouldn't recommend you to go back to the travel agency but you can always buy the chinese flag and pee on it. Try not to do it in a public place. Then you will be able to add it to your travel blog attached to this story. Look at the good part - they didn't accused you for holding drags there ... Any way be ready for such experiences and remember - IT IS ALLWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY !!!
1st August 2005

Fascinating story.
I have knew you had trouble with the police so I waited for this story. it is amazing! I realate to the remarks about how auful it is living in a place with no civil-liberties. I think you are lucky to have expirienced that without getting into too much trouble. It could hae been worse. good thing the embasy was also helpful. keep loging stories...
2nd August 2005

my last reply.
1 to Gader: Shame on you. I can't find any words else that fit you so much. 2 To reply to Cumberland Sausage's reply to my reply to Cumberland Sausage's reply(haha~): I still don't disagree with you about that point we had discussed, but anyway, that's fine--ppl always disagree.(^_^) Thanks for your applause~(Wonder nods and bows) I'll try it when I visit there~ All: I think my words are enough. So no more words in case they cause disputes. Good luck to Eldar~
29th January 2006

Wonder, it's not about a "misunderstanding,", it's about exstortion, plan and simple. Quit making excuses. That police officer is corrupt, and you don't need a high school education to know how to exstort money from people.
4th August 2006

LoL dude that was a sleece..
i'm chinese so i know what happened: they are just too poor and corrupt, both economically and spiritually, so they sleeced your money. That was uh not racist, but they know you are white and their empiricist experiences told them that white people are rich, and it was all about the money. well i'm not saying you don't have money, but know a bunch of white people love to explore the genuine culture, i guess, the obsolete one, the ancient yet original one. But well hold your horses, this is an educational experience i have to say, it is not the real face, everything is just multitudinal, congratulations on discovering the other side of china :) hit on some big cities, it is different but amazing as well
19th November 2007

Looters
i'm sorry this happened to you. there is a reason for this though, especially if you appear to be a foreigner. one of the things the Chinese government tries to prevent is looting, as it happened to dunhuang, among others. i really do like your site. you've been to many places to China where i'd never dare to go.
26th February 2008

Dunhuang
The story of Dunhuang itself is also interesting. What some Chinese call looting can be interpreted a little differently by others. The Chinese archaeologist who was digging the site did not get enough funds, and in order to proceed he sold some of the treasures to European countries. Is this looting? I don't know...
28th December 2008

Wow.
I know it's been a few years, but wow, what an experience! You should blog more often! Post pictures of the place if you have any.
8th October 2009

What a nightmare! :(
30th January 2010

stay away from Xinjiang-er
Sorry for your experience in Xinjiang, China. Most locals in Xinjiang province are Muslims. They're minorites in China that are living a relatively poor life compared to the Han majorities. Even in metropolitan cities of China, we stay away from people from Xinjiang. They hawk in the streets and will threaten you to buy things as long as you touched the goods. And they ofen make money by stealing. So, try to avoid them next time you come to China. It's easy to tell a Xinjiang-er since they resemble people in Middle East countries such as Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan...
13th November 2010

Not sure you understood
The whole story is about a police officer who basically attacked me, not a vendor on the street that threatened me. I had a lot of fun with the local population. It looks like government officials are the problem, not the locals...

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