How materialistic are you, compared with the people you live, work and otherwise interact with?
good topic!
We have a huge tv! that's because it's 10 yrs old. We also have a very small netbook and that's because we want to keep up with friend's and family while we're travelling.
Reply to this Well, I don't have any mortgages, cars, loans or anything else to pay of while I am gone. I have my backpack, the clothes in it and I have my old room at my parents house with a few more clothes, a very old stereo (from back in the day when I was still living at home) some books, a few cd's and that is about it. When I return home I stay either with my parents or with my friends, and while there I do chores, like cleaning the house, babysitting or whatever (depending on which friends and the situation) or when I am at home a whole multitude of house hold tasks, just so I am not a complete bum living for free with my parents or friends when home. Lack of earning while travelling could be considered an expense, but you might have that lack of earning at home and live of the dole, making you feel even more miserable. My father calculated last year when my parents came out to travel with me for a month in India, that he actually saved more money during that trip than if he had stayed at home. Granted he is on a pension, so no lost earnings, but still, it says something.
I will never deny that travelling costs money or is even a luxury (compared to the third world at least), I just deny that it is "even a relatively expensive hobby" in the west. It can be, for sure, so can anything else, but it doesn't have to be. It depends on many factors, including where you decide to travel, the type of person you are etc. etc... I find it a generalistic view to say that travel is an expensive hobby.
Now that I think of it, I am not sure if it is the expensive part or the hobby part that I am not happy about. My life has been called a hobby, it's like telling a painter he has a nice hobby. Why is travelling often called a hobby or a luxury, while sports and arts are not? Neither of them are necessities either and often even get subsidised. Another topic I guess...
Reply to this in buddhism, its the 'yearning' that causes life's problems.
if you are yearning for material items, or yearning to get away and travel, it may create the same deep rooted unhappiness.
Is the enjoyment of watching Hollyoaks on your brand new 27" flat screen the same as the enjoyment of passing through a new border and experiencing a new culture?
great discussion BTW...
Reply to this Is the enjoyment of watching Hollyoaks on your brand new 27" flat screen the same as the enjoyment of passing through a new border and experiencing a new culture?
27"... are you kidding me, unless it's for your bathroom of course? 😱
I have some friends who are real home birds... The idea of snuggling on the sofa watching their favourite soap would rate far higher than crossing borders, dealing with the potentially unsafe unknown. They're still great friends and although our lives and general outlooks are somewhat different we constantly have stuff to talk about.
Each to their own...
Reply to this Oh and I fully agree with this statement
if you are yearning for material items, or yearning to get away and travel, it may create the same deep rooted unhappiness.
I'm constantly thinking about previous and future travels, which makes me deeply unhappy that I'm not doing it now. Still, the excitement of what's to come does pep me up a bit.
Reply to this Being content with what you have is a very important factor in life.
Sure, I'd prefer to travel than to work - and admittedly I have a great job. But whilst working, I consider how much worse life could be - I could have have no job, not be living in my nice 1-bedroom rented apartment, or be stuck in a hospital with tubes coming out of my orifices.
Being content with what one has is vital. So whilst saving money through the daily routine of work I consider how fortunate my life is, and dream and plan for the next travel destinations.
Life is great!
Reply to this I'm sure 'workshyandshameless' is an expresison of how you feel about travel vs. work and has given rise to this discussion... let me explain....
My regular travel partner often confesses to me how guilty he feels about taking time off, and we had a long chat about guilt and how it stops you from doing what you really want to do.
Not just guilt of upsetting family or spending money recklessly, but guilt from being away from work and having to feel like you have to explain any time away to colleagues. And this is from someone who owns his own business!
Guilt for not being in the 'cycle' and upsetting others who havent got the guts to do what you do, even though really, we know our travels are very simple, easy and pretty insignificant compared to others we will meet when we are away. Good to know 'workshy' is also 'shameless' with it, as you need to be sometimes to get what you want!
Is this an English thing? A western thing? A self employed thing? (both of us are)
I think it is something to do with not fitting into the stereotype material system...
Reply to this I am not so sure we as travellers are so work shy. We have to get the money for our travelling by working afterall. And anyway lots of travellers are doing volunteer work, teaching English......
Is this an English thing? A western thing? A self employed thing? (both of us are)
The guilt: Maybe many never really learned how to have fun. Then when they do decide they will do something fun they dont feel comfortable with it. There is such an emphasis in many of our societies on making money and working that making a choice to do less of that is a difficult one for many. If people are not comfortable with their choices, then maybe they are too swayed by the opinions of others who want to confirm their suspicions that they might be doing something wrong. Those who are confident with their choice and themselves will be more comforable with the opinions of those who make different choices. ie they dont feel such a need to justify, blame........
The self employed thing: Being self employed would be quite a responsibility. I think it is only natural for the self employed to get nervy, if they are not attending to their business for extended periods.
Reply to this When i was in Tanzania I saw a number of groups of German overlanders driving round in lovely (expensive) Land Rovers covered in lots of stickers from places they had been - obviously they had the means to travel extensively in mid-life.
SOmeone who had lived in germany for a long time told me that the Germans have very low, long term fixed mortgages and very little of the pressure to buy houses. But also it is seen as a healthy thing to take time off and visit the world, especially after working for a long time and paying into society - the secure employers in germany can accommodate it. Very often they had family with them - young children - and had no problem with being away from home for long periods. Try to get English people to take their children out of the school and round the world without an end in sight!
I think the opinions of others play a large part in what you choose to do, travel included, and I know in the UK, pressure comes in the form of material things rather than life experiences. Self enlightenment and learning is sneered at or considered a bit of a joke, whereas house prices and new cars are the main source of self-improvement...
Reply to this I dont know what those Germans were talking about. It is against the law here in Germany to take ones children out of school for travel or anything else for that matter. There is no home schooling allowed.
And relatively few people in Germany buy their houses and appartments. I dont know if the mortgages are low and fixed or not, but not many buy their homes. Apparently this is because property is incredibly expensive.
The Germans you met seem to be ones who have completely rebelled against German society. Many here, especially in the South of Germany think people should work all the time they can. There is no such thing as accepting that you dont not have or want a particular thing, If you dont have it, the general reason given here is that you are not working enough.
I think the people you meet while travelling will be of a completely different types, to the ones you might know if you are living long term in a particular country. You would likely see English people in a different light too, if most of the ones you meet are while travelling. I certainly think differently about Germans, than I did before I lived here for a few years.
Self enlightenment and learning is sneered at or considered a bit of a joke, ...
I think that can depend quite a lot on how they express themselves and how sincere they are. And those who make money too as a way of self improvement are something to be admired in my opinion, if they are not selling their souls in the process.
Reply to this Really? i didnt know about that with children and the law.
The home ownership thing is an unbelievable force in the UK - a current it is impossible to swim away from!! Its all to do with class as is most things here...
Do you think Germany is more materialistic than the UK?
Interesting what you say about not accepting you cant have something. Maybe the expensive land rovers and extended safaris are a materialistic replacement for real escape.
Surely it is easier to rebel and escape society when you haven't been locked into a 30year mortgage.
Reply to this The home ownership thing is an unbelievable force in the UK -
Makes sense though. If somebody manages to buy someplace to live during their working years, then the old age pension everybody gets in the EU would be plenty. It would probably even be enough for to take in some budget backpacking every year.
Do you think Germany is more materialistic than the UK?
Not all of it. Mostly the South of Germany is. It is conservative, materialistic and xanophobic. The xanophobia is based on the belief of many that foreigners are bad for the economy and are costing the country money. But that only applies if you live here. It is OK as a tourist destination, especially since it is rich enough to keep everything well restored and looking great. But the materialism: What the people have here, they generally show off. Black BMW or 2 parked out front, designer clothes and fashionable furniture. And nothing is ever good enough for them and nothing is ever enough.
The North of Germany is completely different. We lived in Hamburg for a while too. They are a lot easier going and foreigner friendly. And, I think Berlin would be a great place to live. But, even so many are like the ordinary people in the UK or anyplace. Only a small percentage would be the types who would take off with the kids for long term backpacking.
Reply to this "The home ownership thing is an unbelievable force in the UK."
If you think the UK is bad, than Australia must be in the same league or worse - the banks (including the "big four" who control 70%!o(MISSING)f household loans) bombard us with continual TV, radio, newspaper and Internet advertisements about their latest mortgage offers.
Furthermore, there are numerous do-it-yourself TV shows and magazines focused on improving your garden and home - and thus targetted at home and apartment owners.
And of course, pressure from peers and elders is the third part of the irresitible force. When interest rates started dropping in Australia, this pressure increased; "now is the time to buy!" people would exhort; "not interested" would be my reply, and the subject changed to a more interesting topic.
Reply to this When interest rates started dropping in Australia, this pressure increased; "now is the time to buy!" people would exhort; "not interested" would be my reply, and the subject changed to a more interesting topic.
I dont so much mind people enjoying their homes or wanting to own one, but when they get obsessed and especially when they try to make others be the same, it gets very boring.
Reply to this Is home ownership just the modern equivalent of bonded labour/serfdom - a way to get the masses to work their entire lives for someone else's benefit?
Reply to this Nah - its about social climbing in england - moving up the class ladder.
And its the only socially acceptable way of making lots of money. Mention to a dinner party that your business made 50k profit and everyone will think you are rolling in it and a show-off. Mention you sold your house for 50k more than you bought it, everyone will nod and hope theirs has gone up as well.
One is adding value to a product or service, the other is speculation to the detriment of society. And it's still positively encouraged with TV makeover programmes, even though we've just been through a severe financial crisis caused by..... a property price bubble! Sorry, rant over.
How materialisiic are you, guys? Could you carry everything you want/need in the back of a truck? A car? Just a backpack?
Reply to this Is home ownership just the modern equivalent of bonded labour/serfdom - a way to get the masses to work their entire lives for someone else's benefit?
Trying to get my head around that one! Surfdome and bonded labour are worlds away for the work conditions and earnings we enjoy(well as much as one can enjoy work) in developed countries these days. :D
....a way to get the masses to work their entire lives for someone else's benefit?
Who would benefit if we work our whole lives?
I think it is over dependency on materialism that is causing people to need to work their whole lives. It is still possible to work a lot less if one lives simply and within ones means. If this was not the case, then 3 of us would not be able to live on my boyfriends income. Not only do we live on it, but we can afford travel and other unnecessary things.
People sometimes say to me, that we can afford to live like this because we live so simply, whereas they have to have a double income(if they are couples) and work overtime to make ends meet. The big question that come to mind for me is, when do they get to enjoy their earnings. I know one couple with 2 kids. He works all day and she works all night. They can see no other way to have enough money for their home and all the things they need. But, I have managed to buy a modest appartment and I never earned huge wages. Is more really needed?
Nobody is forcing us to overwork and overearn. It is a choice that many make.
Though I often cop a lot of critisism for what people see as not contributing to society by getting a job and paying tax. Looks like many only value financial contributions, if they can so completely ignore what I do as a mother and somebody has to tidy the house etc. Do they really think it is better for society if one of use works all day and the other all night, or if a childminder brings up my child? For sure if we had a double income we would be paying more tax, and we would have a bigger house to leave my daugher when we die.....
Reply to this And it's still positively encouraged with TV makeover programmes.....
I think it is the other way around. Lots of people watching those TV shows is what makes them worth broadcasting.
How materialisiic are you, guys? Could you carry everything you want/need in the back of a truck? A car? Just a backpack?
Well, I tailor the physical amout of stuff I have to the conditions. If I am backpacking, I will take only enough to fit in a small backpack. If I have an appartment, I will have only as much stuff as will fit into it........
Reply to this The things you own end up owning you.
I find that the real problem with having stuff is that when you have it you have to look after it. That takes away freedom to vaying degrees.
One thing that prompted me to have less stuff is the nuisance it causes that takes away my freedom. The nuisance involves having parts of things replaced, getting money back when things do not work, keeping them in good condition, preventing them from being stolen....
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