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Travelling in countries where much of the local population is poor and deprived.

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Originally part of Slumdog Millionaire
How does it make you feel?
14 years ago, June 2nd 2009 No: 21 Msg: #74683  

This is the view of a lot of the communities you do visit.


I dont think much of their attitudes, if they think of us as just walking money bags. When I encounter this attitude from the locals it is often from those who receive quite a lot of tourist money and have become greedy and engage in all kinds of annoying things like touting, scamming, overcharging...
I dont think people have this attitude as much in more isolated places where the people dont see so many tourists. Those seem to be more satisified when we just pay for services received.

You talk a lot in terms of money, Peter. Maybe that is because money is the main way you feel you can help others when you travel? Nothing wrong with that. Money has its uses and of course people like to receive it. And everybody should help in the ways they most comfortably can. If giving more money than me and Ralf can while travelling is something you can do, then I am sure it is gratefully received by many.

In most places in Asia, you pay first to get medical care....even if it is an emergency. This is a sad reality, but it's still one. So if you don't front the money, or do not have a cover, as Ralf does, you are a burden.


Then I dont think it is we who are a burden. It does not look to me from what you say like the medical services deprive themselves of payment just to save our lives. I think those who put a price tag on peoples lives are the burden in this world. They will be treating the locals the same and the poor likely dont have medical insurance to pay for emergency life saving treatment and unlike us they cannot have the money wired to them by a relation.


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14 years ago, June 2nd 2009 No: 22 Msg: #74696  

If you do behave "cheaper" than the locals, you don't bring much.

of course you don't, if you behave cheaper than the locals you will cost them money. But as I said, the average income is less than 2 dollars a day in India, that means many earn as Mel said, perhaps as little as 70 cents a day, while perhaps the middle class in the cities earn a lot more. So is 10 dollars living cheaper than the locals? I can tell you I pay fair price for everything, I just make sure I don't get cheated. Just because I am white and travel, doesn't mean I should pay more than a local for a bus/rickshaw fare or for a room/meal. But I do, always, the only thing I can make sure of is that I pay only 20 percent more instead of three times as much. I don't mind paying a little more, because I have the money.

By the way 10 dollars a day is my average budget in India, it means that at times I spend much more (while travelling around a lot and going into many sights) and at other times I spend much less because I am staying for a while on one spot. I normally pay around 5 dollars for a room with attached bathroom, the rest goes into food. I don't bargain at restaurants or street stalls, I look at the prices on the menu or ask them and if I think it is too expensive I go to another restaurant. I would do the same at home. I do bargain at hotels, but not always, it depends. I know what to expect for a certain amount of money, if they offer me a shitty stinkhole with no bathroom for 10 dollars I will either leave or tell them it isn't worth more than 2 dollars. In the season I will often have to pay more for a room, in the off season it is me who is getting the better deal. So it goes.

As Mel pointed out there are other ways to help than just with money. I went to a refugee camp in the northeast of India, out of curiousity, because I heard they were all still wearing their traditional clothing, living in traditional bamboo huts. I wrote about it, and half a year later, I got a mail from somebody working for the U.N. refugee agency asking me for contact details of the person I was staying with and how to get there. He had never heard about these refugees, had read my blog and now wanted to visit to assess the situation. I don't know if he did, if it helped or what happened, but clearly my writing about it did make an impact and a situation that was perhaps hidden from view before was now not. What did I do myself to help them? Not much, I gave some clothes, for the kids and a little money. Neither was asked of me, the guy I was staying with was happy to show me around and tell about the problems facing them and just happy that somebody was showing an interest and that perhaps the story would be told.

You know in the end I think it is good to have different kind of travelers, the budget ones, the mid range ones and the rich ones, they all give money to different segments of the population. If I were to up my budget and eat in a fancier place, it would mean I won't spend money on the cheap restaurant down the street. Somebody who owns a fancier restaurant probably already has some money (otherwise he couldn't own a fancy restaurant), so my money goes to make somebody who is already doing fine, better. That is no problem, he might spend the more money he makes on his family and local community, by buying more things at the local stores or hiring more staff. But if I spend it in the cheap restaurant I not only help myself, but also people who have little already and who might otherwise not get that extra income.

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14 years ago, June 2nd 2009 No: 23 Msg: #74701  
By the way, I am of course also aware of how lucky I am. And not only when I travel in many of the poor and deprived countries I visit. I think about how lucky I am almost every day. I was born into a situation where I was able to choose this kind of lifestyle, do what I loved the most, live my life to its fullest. When I am home I think about how great it is to even have a place you can call home, and in my case I have a wonderful place I can all home. I am lucky with my parents, both being in good health and alive and supportitive of my lifestyle, I am lucky with my brother and sister who are my best friends, I am lucky with my friends as a whole and I am lucky that I have had the courage in myself to choose what I do. It is because I am aware of how lucky I am and what a luxury it is to have a choice in the way you live your life, that I have made use of it. I find it a waste not to make use of the choices one has, if one has the opportunity, one should grab it. But that is also an attitude, and I think it isn't always that easy for people to either see the opportunity or make use of it. So again I am lucky in that respect.

But when I look at a farmer in India toiling away in the sun on a barren field, and feel lucky about myself, I often also see that he is actually quite happy. If you look closely, a lot of the poor are always smilling and laughing. We tend to only pitty the poor, without seeing that many of them are not miserable, unhappy creatures. There is a bigger sense of community amongst the poor, people help each other out, they socialize, they make life bearable and are happy with what little they have. Our kids need a Nintendo gameboy to be happy and still often are not, their kids throw a rock into a corner or something and are laughing, finding immense enjoyment in that game. There are a lot of lonely sad people in our societies, both adults and children, I think it is less so in the third world. Reply to this

14 years ago, June 2nd 2009 No: 24 Msg: #74714  
1 post deleted. 1 account deleted. 1 URL blacklisted. No spamming on these forums.

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14 years ago, June 2nd 2009 No: 25 Msg: #74756  

I went to a refugee camp in the northeast of India, out of curiousity, because I heard they were all still wearing their traditional clothing, living in traditional bamboo huts. I wrote about it, and half a year later, I got a mail from somebody working for the U.N. refugee agency asking me for contact details of the person I was staying with and how to get there.


I think bringing the attention of the UN and human rights groups to people and passing on information like you did is one of the best things you can do for people while travelling. I am always hoping that by paying attention to what is going on and listening to what people in the various countries say I will somehow make a difference, even though it generally seems hopeless. Looks like you have succeeded in making a difference by paying attention and passing on the information. 😊 Reply to this

14 years ago, June 3rd 2009 No: 26 Msg: #74797  

I won't agree just to put in on a political view point. Visiting countries like Myanmar, North Korea or Zimbabwe do rise that issue. I did Zimbabwe and do not regret. People there tell you...if you don't come...we will have nothing left to eat...so the point is to chose wisely your operator. For Myanmar, you can chose to stay in private places, let it be budget or not, and make some kind of difference. In North Korea, it is not possible.


So going to places like Zimbabwe and N. Korea provides some money for those you tip etc and whose services you use, and that is a good thing, but why is it a reason to put asside the connection between politics and poverty. How often have those governments stolen aid money and not allowed NGOs into the countries during disasters and thus subjecting the people of the country to unnecessary misery and even causing deaths by depriving them of the the food and medical care that the aid people would have brought.

As for Burma, the couple of hundred Euros of whatever a tourist would spend there, by far does not make up for the obstruction of peaceful protest for democracy. Reply to this

14 years ago, June 3rd 2009 No: 27 Msg: #74798  

You know in the end I think it is good to have different kind of travelers, the budget ones, the mid range ones and the rich ones, they all give money to different segments of the population. If I were to up my budget and eat in a fancier place, it would mean I won't spend money on the cheap restaurant down the street. Somebody who owns a fancier restaurant probably already has some money (otherwise he couldn't own a fancy restaurant), so my money goes to make somebody who is already doing fine, better. That is no problem, he might spend the more money he makes on his family and local community, by buying more things at the local stores or hiring more staff. But if I spend it in the cheap restaurant I not only help myself, but also people who have little already and who might otherwise not get that extra income.


I considered saying this, but it seemed too much like justifying my existance and that of the other budget travellers with how much we spend.
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14 years ago, June 3rd 2009 No: 28 Msg: #74801  
Yeah I know, and it is not the reason I travel on a budget, and it isn't something I have thought about much until now. But nevertheless it is true I think. Reply to this

14 years ago, December 29th 2009 No: 29 Msg: #97724  
While my post may be really too late, I figured I should share this tidbit of information, especially since she has mentioned the Philippines.

Minsan Lang sila Bata (They are but a Child Once) is a 1996 documentary that highlights the misery and poverty that children in Negros Occidental face. They are forced to work, when they should be in school; in slaughterhouses, in sugarcane fields, in the docks as cement bag porters.

It was hailed as one of the most moving documentaries that time, and whoever watched it without getting affected "was stricken with the worst form of apathy."

Eh, I'm not sure where to download this classic. Last I've seen it, it was being played in VHS players. It was subbed, so anyone who understands English can hold a cookie watching this.
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14 years ago, December 29th 2009 No: 30 Msg: #97775  
I will watch out for that movie, on my visits to Dublin. I go to a movie place where a lot of foreign movies are shown about social, political, psychological... subjects. Likely Minsan Lang sila Bata will be shown some time there.

While my post may be really too late,..


Discussions dont need to have an end. Contribute to any you want. 😊 Reply to this

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