I have become something that I have always been ideologically opposed to when travelling; someone who spends a few days in a country and makes sweeping generalisations. Knowing that time is limited on my trip to Macedonia I simply cannot afford to let an opinion develop naturally; I actively searched one out;)…
Macedonia is noticeably more western and developed than Albania, I stayed in Ohrid, Macedonia’s tourist-mecca, which had a quaint little pedestrian shopping street catering to tourists from the surrounding countries (this is where Greeks take their holidays when the local Chlamydios islands are in season!). The attraction of Ohrid is its eastern orthodox churches and monastery’s . The churches are not too dissimilar to those you’ll see anywhere in the region - however, these are unique in that they are set in strategically scenic locations on cliffs overlooking Europes deepest lake (275m) nestled in the mountains.
I stayed with a family in Ohrid. A professor of History and his economist wife - doing crappy jobs and letting rooms. They had a son called Toni who was 8 yrs old. I was told he knew the Capital of every country in the world (He did!). This totally
freaked me out - how a kid could know all these ‘useless’ facts without even the slightest notion of what they meant. What other ‘facts’ had he been taught by his family, how much of what I know do I really understand? Fuck all probably! - anyhow, I succumbed to the gurus wisdom, and for the next half an hour, an 8yr old attempted to teach me the Cyrillic alphabet.
Being a professor of History, Toni’s father knew ‘stuff’. I felt some of his views on race were a little close to the mark; so he became known to me affectionately as ‘professor bigot’. Fortunately, for a balanced Macedonian stereotyping, I spent two leisurely afternoons over coffee talking to Silvana, a 32 yr old who worked for the tourist board. She had more rounded views. Many locals think that regional tensions could even lead to war, and in a few years Macedonia could cease to exist, but everyone I spoke to had the impression the future of their country was in the hands of external powers. If you speak to people from surrounding countries about Macedonia they will invariably say “that’s our country” . Everyone I met wished to
leave, which did annoy me slightly; I felt it was a quest for that extra zero on the monthly wage, rather than an escape from genuine hardship - maybe we pushed that capitalism-is-better-than-communism thing a bit too far? But in fairness they are still living behind a wall!
The women in Macedonia dressed pretty ‘provocatively’. I spoke to a Bulgarian chappy who believed this was a backlash to the communist days when women all tied their hair back and dressed down and dull, and today’s perceived depressing times, meant they were more willing to procreate, and fulfil their role in life!? How could I judge; sure they looked good to me, and in a purely marketing sense they knew how to sell what they had - but did that mean they were subservient to men - certainly to my western mind 'nice' girls don’t dress like that, and what about those Muslim girls - shouldn’t they be more wild? after all it is 'we' in the west who decide for the rest of the world… isn't it?
It was probably my overactive imagination, but I had the distinct impression that I could have had a whole lot of fun with the local ladies of Macedonia. But you don’t need a psychoanalyst to work this one out - they weren’t solely after the substantial contents of my underpants, or even my wallet. This was passport envy! I was told a local women would genuinely be willing to pay over $20,000 US to marry a westerner.
In Macedonia I felt like I was on holiday in the more conventional sense; the holiday atmosphere was all around, the sun shone, I took great pleasure in taking pictures and enjoying the sights, I felt like a bloody tourist and It was great. I felt totally at ease, slipping into the groove of another endless adventure. It was difficult to comprehend I had only been going for just two weeks?
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I come from Macedonia but live in Sydney and have been here since 1987. I miss home but not enough to move back there. I don't have much to say but I just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed reading your entry and I beleive you have hit the mark. I'm surprised you absorbed so much in such a short time.
Regarding Toni, I am willing to bet that had you stayed a bit longer you would have met dozens of little Toni's with 'useless facts' only we don't consider them useless, it is general knowledge. - Goce
Jason,
The comment you have made about Macedonia are totally out of line. Im a Macedonian national who has studied and lived in numerous countries, including the US, which is where I presume you come from.
A couple of comments on your irritating assumptions, and your troubling egocentric personality:
1. Woman in southern Europe generally dress more provocatively than in the US or other "developed" countries. This is mostly because they are generally more self confident, make smarted decisions about sex, and have to worry much less than your woman about fucked up rapists roaming the streets. (check the annual rape numbers in Macedonia)
2. I have never heard of woman wanting to spend 20,000 USD to marry an idiot like yourself. Sure the economy is crappy, but I'm sure you didnt fail to notice that all cafes, restaurants, and stores were packed (unlike 90% of shithole US small town streets). The woman you may be referring to were etiher prostitutes (you probably realized how rare they are in MK) or of another ethnicity. There are much easier and ways to go abroad and get lucky than marrying a selfish dickweed suck as yourself, whose only possession is a good passport.
3. Macedonia as a region, as a language, and as a people has been around much longer than probably wherever you come from. The fact that countries such as yours chose to ignore this fact and have actively chosen to erase or block our existense from history books is political and has been one of the main reasons the balkans have remained a hotspot throughout history.
4. Macedonia, as part of former Jugoslavia, never suffered the communist regimes that countries such as Poland, Czeckoslovakia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Hungary etc when through. You might find the postcommunist whore sindrome there, if thats what you are after.
With Macedonia getting the help in has been from countries such as yours (compare that in $ terms to any country in Europe, especially Greece, which was the least developed country in Europe 20 years ago, excluding Albania)I think however small the progress seams (not to mention the impact of your fucking embargo on Serbia which forced 400,000 refugees to Macedonia, and about 50 to western countries) Macedonia is moving slowly forward due to the peristance of its people and their national pride, which you have arrogantly, uninformedly hurt.
You could learn a thing or two from that 8 year old boy. But then again, thats probably not your fault. Your primary and secondary education is at best, rediculous. And thats your countries smartest policy, keeping the masses dumb as shit, and having the lucky few do as they will, destroying people and nations much wiser and much less luckier than yours.
Thank You Gorian,
No I am not from the US but I assume you are a pure blooded serb...thankyou for your analysis
1) Macedonia women dress provocatively because they "worry much less than your woman about fucked up rapists roaming the streets".
2) The women who wished to marry a westerner "were either prostitutes (even though you state there are very few) or foreigners".
3) "Your country is older than mine"!? no comment;)
4)Thanks for your advice on where to "find the postcommunist whore sindrome" ...maybe you should worry more about finding your own war criminals/heros?
...and sorry, I didn't realise the impact of (my) "fucking embargo on Serbia"
P.S. I honestly loved the last paragraph ...totally agree: "And thats your countries smartest policy, keeping the masses dumb as shit, and having the lucky few do as they will, destroying people and nations much wiser and much less luckier than yours".
Although after meeting 'Professor bigot' I worry what the youth in Macedonia, let alone Serbia, are being taught.
And honestly, I loved your rant, almost as good as mine and I apologise completely for "arrogantly and uninformedly hurting Macedonians". with my opinions.
Thanks
Jason.
P.S. If you wanna know how NATO really screwed up the balkans and the West's destruction of Yugoslavia read the book 'Degraded Capabilty'
here is a link: http://www.martinshaw.org/degraded.htm
Jason,
No I am not a Serbian, actually I am Macedonian (like you mentioned in your comments, about our neighbors, I don't see any Serbians defending Macedonia or its people). May have gotten a bit carried away with my comments (you did not fail to quote my language numerous times) but I think you deserved a little bit of that, and honestly I have met too many similar minded people that have that syndrome and unfair judgement of my people and our culture. Sure, I may have supported your thinking of how big nationalists we are (even though that is much more of a Serb quality than Macedonian) but I bet you didn't see any house flying Macedonian flags for Thanksgiving, or Halloween or was it the 4th of July (oh right, your not American..) Which in itself disappointed me, seeing that this is the culture that is spreading and more and more predominating the world. When I read back, I sound a bit too anti-western-American etc, but I do value freedom of thought (which seams to be affected brilliantly back there) freedom of speech (which is affected not so brilliantly) and freedom of fear (which is obsolete). Fortunalty for us Macedonians, we still have these freedoms and thats probably what keeps the drive. What was the purpose of your visit to the balkans anyway, if you are so stubbornly obssessed with your passport, your salary, and obviously not the historical and beautiful aspect of old monasteries, and beautiful (deep) lakes? And as I have probably traveled far more extensively in the region (if not beyond) I stand by my previous words on prostitution in Macedonia. It's a big issue for UN/NATO/EU "peace" keepers used to cheap woman in other less developed countries (although they do enjoy the cafes, clubs, and lack of war). So unforunate that you didn't score in MK, and tough shit for the rain and your girfriend in BG.
send me a private message Gorian so I have your email...
and I'll tell some good stories - Do you know I read somewhere that NATO was a secret wing of the Albanian mafia:-)
cheers!
I CAN SEE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE YOU ANNOY, KEEP WRITING JAY I REALLY ENJOY READING YOUR BLOGS AND SO DO LOADS OF OTHERS.
I am very glad that you liked Macedonia - Generaly because its nice place with much fun more fun when I compare with other European countries, also people are more frendlier here. However your story contained a lot of crap. Economy is much lower than what it used to be in Socializam/Komunizam much less work but coffie/Bier bars, are full all the time - so people have more money than they say - (money from the past). About girls - they are much more konzervative about sex than in other countries
but they look much better. Story about 20K or your passport just sucks. I dont belive that you had any situation like that just stories.Also Education and Culture is on higher level in here. When our student goes to study abroad in 99% of cases he is succesfull. Its very easy to study abroad.Not everyone like to go abroad, I travel a lot but I always think that Macedonia is a best place to leave despite everything that is going on. Soo finally keep to your opinion - you can't see the things in a very short time.
Also do come again on longer time to see the things better you might stay to live here:))
With 200Eur I can suvive in Macedonia for example in Swiss I can't with 2000Eur at least not the live as I am used to. Going out have a beer etc.
Your blog is fantastic and some of these comments ain't bad either. I had a blast during my short stay in East Europe despite (because of?) "The Yugo Is The Best Automobile Ever Made and The United States is The Asshole of The Universe" brigade.
you know it's funny: you write a blog, and you insert your personal experiences and inevitably opinions are formed; You think about what you're writing as you write and who your audience is (which most likely is family and friends); regardless, you get lambbasted for writing honestly as you do. Sometimes it just hits too close to home from some people I suppose. But of course you can't know a country in a week or a month or even a year. I only have to say that tolerance, an open mind, and the curiosity to experience another culture are probably some of the most valuable assets that a person can have. I applaud you for writing 'from the hip', noting your ephemeral and insant opbservations. It's evident that you're obviously not a reckless traveler that guzzles beer at every stop. so, keep on writing as you are and who you are, and I'll keep reading...
Whatever your name is whoever wrote this thing. You are obviously very arrogant so I don't see the point of you travelling in the Balkans, all you would do is critisize most things and complain. Such things that you may complain about are poor roads and infrastructure, but you must understand that the reason everything is bad is because of YOUR government. If you would have visited when it was Yugoslavia you would have been shocked to see a Communist country ahead of you in some fields.
You're ignorance is very dangerous my friend, be careful not to voice such opinions in public as you can slip up one day and pay with your life.
Be very careful, obviously this guy Gorian is well educated and knows the truth about everything, I am currently in London and I can see the state that schools are in here. It is actually so appauling I would recommend schools in India better than in the West. People of 15 years of age don't even know where Britain or the US are on the World Map. They are pregnant at 14, go binge drinking in the parks and are a HUGE problem for the Police.
But Gorian, do not be a prick, the reason Serbs don't defend Macedonia is because you sacrificed your soul for your former fellow state and gave the US and NATO your aircraft bases to store and load their aircraft to bomb Serbia in 1999.
You know very well that in the days of Yugoslavia Serbs were the most naiive, they would have died for a Croat or Muslim or Macedonian. When Skopje was COMPLETELY destroyed by an Earthquake Serbs payed for the reconstruction, at the same time, Tito split Serbia into 3 autonomies (Kosovo, Vojvodina and Central Serbia) and look what shit that has landed us in now. At the time nobody noticed because we had blind faith in the glory of Jugoslavija.
Who suffered the heaviest loses in WWII liberating ourselves without the help of the Soviet Red Army, Serbs did. Yet who became President of Yugoslavia? A Croat.
I am a nationalist because Serbs have nothing left but nationalism, you Westerners have battered our country to bits and you are still at it (backing Muslim Albania to take our holy land where our first state was founded - Kosovo).
But you are getting what you deserved. You backed Muslims in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo and now they are fucking you up HAHAHAHAHA. Good, more bombs on the tube, more planes into towers, hopefully Canary Wharf will be next.
Check out our amazing capital Belgrade and other galleries on my site:
http://www.pbase.com/stefan_serb
LONG LIVE SERBIA AND GREECE, FUCK THE WEST!
If the country is so poor, how can ppl just afford to pay 20 000G to marry someone just to get out????? if someone has 20 000grand they can live mighty good in Macedonia. Plus Macedonian women are pretty not trashy, I guess you are not use to it, we all know about what an eyesore British women are! Glad you keep your pants on, would not want someone like you polluting Macedonian blood.
I would have felt rather ashamed when a little boy from a "not so developed country" was more educated that a man from the West. And a little fun fact: your people were still savages, when we concurred the world!
come on ppl, some of Jasons comments did sound a bit out of line, but it is just the way he viewed these things through his cultural lenses, and if he made a mistake you can try to explain him some of the things better instead of acting like idiots and cursing all around. And than you get angry when the whole world thinks we are not tolerant and that we are backward. Someone here claimed we have better education than the west?! Well, here is your chance, prove your level of education prove your good manners....
i just wanted to say that macedonia is one damn' lucky country, in the sense that it has such a fantastically massive history. i am macedonian, and i respect all nations world wide, acknowledging their own greatness, such as greece and italy. however, this is where we macedonians differ from the rest. we are not as racist as some other people are. greeks, serbs and other countries for some stupid reason don't acknowledge our greatness at all. but that, my friends, is the greatest downside somebody can have - total ignorance. everybody should thank heavens for macedonia, for it was this small country which first opened the doors between east and west, and it was this small country which God first established his church on european soil. now that, my friends, is greatness. for the smallest among you, is always the greatest...
I am macedonian and nobody can change my mind because my grand father told my that everybody shoud be proud to be a MACEDONIAN.AND THAT IS HOLY THING.GOOD BLESS MACEDONIA
Macedonians from all corners of the world are and always will be proud to be called Macedonians. Many people around the world who aren't macedonian are misguided from the true history of the region (Balkans) by Governments and politicians envoking by propaganda eg. Greeks..why are they claiming that macedonians are greeks or the Bulgurians call us Bulgrians, Why? otherwise if they don't then macedonia will have the rights of there own land back that was taken away from them. It's funny how not too long ago the greeks stated that macedonia didn't exist and now they are saying it differently. Only now slowly the world are listening to the truth and more evidence is coming out. Unfortunately many artifacts have been destroyed by greeks ie, our written language. but the truth will come..
... DA ZIVI MAKEDONIJA
fuck greece MAKEDONIJA 4 EVER !!!
hello macedonians around the world ,i hope thet you did not forget your roots,we have a big,old and most impressive istory since the time of alexandar makedonski and beffore thet .
I read all the comments and can't stop wondering why can't we find some common subject that we can discuss about and that is not connected with hate. I am macedonian, and i love all cultures that are peacefull and respectfull. I am married to an American, and i would do anything for him, because he is the smartest motherfucker i have met, plus i love him so much, and we both love to travel (went to Thailand in january 2006). So please people, instead of hating and cursing, can we fucking find a different subject, like traveling... What is your dream destination, why do you love your country, how should a guy treat a girl, anythhing. Love you all. to see my husbends work (he's a photographer) go to www.deverette.com. Love you all, Billy
if our neighbours left us alone we would have the best country in the world it may be small but we have everything we have sand we have snow we have very good natural resources considering our size but i dought they will ever live us alone the albanians claim that this is their land as do the greecks as well as bulgarians
you may love women or man maybe...may love food or drink ...but from macedonia u come ``drug addict``.da zivee makedonija
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im from THESSALONIKI as yoy now all from MACEDONIA THE REAL ONE dude im try to find why yoy want to take our name???yoyr history ? yoyr language? what ? yoy are serbian
not macedonians ~•™£ Ÿ™©Ÿ£ ‘¡™£¤Ÿ£ ‘œ¥•£˜‘™ •¡™ ‘¤¡™£~
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Neka smo mi nama zivi i zdravi, svi oni na zapadu bi hteli da znaju da uzivaju kao mi. Za Goriana: Pozdravi mi Iris.
Heck, I'd marry him for free! Bright, traveled, articulate... unfortunately also apparently straight.
When you guys get done ranting over perceived attacks that don't exist, recognize that he didn't make it up, so one of your own people told him that "truth" and don't kid yourself. There ARE people who would pay for a Western passport.
Macedonia has a proud long heritage that begins with Alexander who did, indeed, try to get the world to see each other as all one people. So let's follow that wise example and see each other as brothers and sisters, and enough of all of this hostility.
Peace & Creation,
JT
you hit the nail on the head, i am australian born to macedonian parents, and i could not agree with you more.yes its a wonderful place, beautiful in fact but the people...... where do i start lazy and dumb so and so who like to free load off more fortune people (relative in particular that have come from overseas that have saved there pennies for years to make the pligrimage back to the home land only to have everyone of the relatives use them)yes very lazy.had the opportunity to spend 5 weeks there not so long ago did not see one relative go to work during that time(apparently it was not worth it, the monthly wage was very low) but was happy to free load off a relative that they had never met before.
and the women yes slut material. im amazed that there isnt many known reports of rape (but most of them are so masculine the men would not be game to attack)
thank you for your blog had a wonderful giggle
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